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We've been in a number of last shot situations the past two seasons. I can only remember 3 working (FSU in last year's ACC tournament, BC, and GT this year). I'd take my chances from the free throw line.Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsborodevil
Of course, even if we took the lead, I'm sure that Rivers would have gotten a foul call.
I was at the game and it scary. BUT, let me say that the "sixth man" stood tall today. The place was rocking toward the end of regulation; and unbelievable vocal support during the overtime. Wonderful experience.
If Green fouled Rivers at the end of regulation, then Thorton fouled Green--there was the same amount of contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by dukepsy1963
Maybe--though he might have fouled while doing so (although, to be fair, yesterday he was playing as well as I remember seeing him play, and he probably would have gotten it). As for your observation, you may be right--I focused more on what Andre did after the ball went toward the VT player (when he did go after it, but too late) than on the initial contact--and I admit to not being the most skilled observer of in-game action, because I get tense and because I don't rewind to review what happened. I guess my main gripe with the commentator was interpreting the missed opportunity as "lack of effort."Quote:
Originally Posted by MChambers
Dude, I think you will get less than no sympathy coming to any Duke board, particularly this one, with a "Duke gets all the calls" riff.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieEngineer
I welcome your comments. I thought VT showed a lot of spunk yesterday -- I was worried sick over this game -- before, during and after. With some more depth and experience and some strength gains in the players, VT is a strong contender in the ACC. I assume Seth has the support of the AD and fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieEngineer
also, there is the potential to make some noise in the tournament.
sage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Newton
During the beginning of the game when he first went in, and for the next 35 minutes or so, until Ryan fouled out, it appeared to me that Mason was "hobbled" by something. My first reaction was that he must be either getting over a cold or he was somewhat "sick". He seemed to be in slow motion and no energy. Then after Ryan fouled out (and Josh already gone for the game), Mason seemed to just "pick it up"... maybe also since he knew the game was nearing its end. To me, if he really was "under the weather", he showed a lot of guts, especially in overtime. I don't have a clue if health was an issue at all, or there's something else "at play" here... but health would make sense to me from what I saw :confused: (of course, I missed that pick/taunt on Tyler... so take this as my 1-1/2 cents)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixthman
Uhhh... go back and watch the final play in slow-mo. That's the definition of perfect defense, and probably the best defensive possession we've seen by a player all year. No way do you get to vaguely group that in with some other play and say there was "contact".Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieEngineer
Yep, Tyler Thornton's defense on that play was superb, would have brought a smile to Gary "The Glove" Payton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Newton
your preference would likely have you losing between 70 and 80 percent of the time...the odds of scoring in any way (3ptrs, 2ptrs, and FTs) are less than the 100% reality of being behind. you're essentially saying you would rather have been in VTs position at the start of the last regular time posession only with Duke having one more point...you wouldn't have made it to the OT.Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsborodevil
Trying to see if I understand where you're going with this...Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsborodevil
Are you arguing that Duke, down 1-2 points, would have around a 40% chance of winning it on the last possession, but by playing D in a tied game, they'd only have a 30% chance of winning (60% chance VT misses * 50/50 shot in overtime) ?
If so, I don't think I agree, since there would be a bunch of other factors involved - enough to negate that 10% difference (assuming that's a fair estimation in the first place).
And to continue on with the simplistic calculations - let's say due to end-game tightening up each team's FG % drops to 33% instead of ~40. Now you're better off defending anyway.
I agree that Thornton's defense was good on that play (as well as on the last play of regulation), and I didn't expect to get a foul call. However, I've yet to see the foul on the the Rivers drive. (If Thornton can use his hand to feel Green, why can't Green use his hand to feel Rivers?) Suppose that Thornton had gotten called for a foul on that play. What would your reaction have been?Quote:
Originally Posted by roywhite
Although I have no idea which play or plays you are talking about (I have already forgotten!) I feel your pain... the inconsistency of the refs is one of the three most frustrating things about watching basketball IMO. The other two are the inept announcers and the gosh aweful production (camera shots of crowds and close up of players and coaches during game action) of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieEngineer
Earlier in the game, Mason went up under the basket and got raked across the arms. The ball went out of bounds, no call although I believe Duke retained possession. A few plays later Mason or Miles (forgotten again) were standing still arms straight up and a Hokie player went up. Minimal contact if any at all, did not alter the shot or cause the VT player to lose possession. Tweet! Foul on Duke! Drives me nuts... I think the problem is that the refs sometime jump the whistle and expect a foul before the play develops. At other times I think that they swallow the whistle for reasons unknown...
Out of the moment, I understand that calling a game must be extremely difficult, and I suspect that over time the calls balance out. In the moment, I am sure that Duke is getting hosed each and every game!
So, welcome to the club...
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnavy
Well put. I stopped complaining a long time ago about the officials. Especially on boards. Do I yell at the tv and the refs, you betcha. After the game you're not going to hear me say the refs cost us a game. I understand the VT fan's displeasure but he/she will one day learn that most of the time refs do a decent job and are not favoring one team or another. Do they influenced by game day crowds, maybe. Are some refs "shoe boats", probably. But they don't favor one team or another. At least not since Lenny Wirtz(unc homer) retired, lol GoDuke!
There's also a psychological component. If you foul on purpose and they end up winning the game, then it's really demoralizing because you basically gave the game to them. You're also telling your team that you don't trust their defense. I don't think I've ever seen a team intentionally concede the lead like that, in any sport. The closest I can think of is in the superbowl when the Pats allowed the Giants to walk into the endzone, but that was a little different - the chances of them scoring anyways were like 95%.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdenscold
I also agree that shooting percentages go way down in those end of game scenarios. So the best play is to defend and force overtime.
Agree wholeheartedly with this post. Though, I would expand on what I said earlier. The "Duke gets all the calls" riff is so commonplace in officiating discussion, even at the level of people calling the games on TV, that I think some expect a comment about it to generate little to know reaction from the Duke fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnavy
On the last play in question, I though TT played great defense against Green, and I would have been shocked had a foul be called, but because the officials hadn't been calling fouls like that all game. The fouls that tended to be called on Austin's defender occurred a) closer to the basket, and b) were usually by his primary defender who he beat, or a help defender coming over because he beat his guy. Green didn't beat TT on that play