Duke football loses $2 million/yr, Duke athletics makes money

Duke football loses $2 million per year, and coaches like Franks and Roof can't win a single game in 2 years, but they make more money than national coach of the year Goestenkors and have more years on their contract even before they're hired, then get raises, contract extensions, and guarantees immediately following those 2 straight winless seasons. Why does Alleva wants losers like Franks, Roof, Hillier, and McNally to stick around forever but is so eager to get rid of a #1 coach with the best win percentage of any mens or womens ACC coach? And since Duke still made money on athletics with football losing $2 million, why doesn't Duke just use that $700,000+ to give G a raise? If Duke can afford to pay an assistant coach more than twice as much as G, or pay 4 more Duke coaches more than national coach of the year G, matching Texas' low $800,000 offer should be a breeze. Does anyone seriously think Duke wouldn't lose a hell of a lot more money than it saved if it let G go, don't they realize they would just need to hire another good coach at the same salary but lose a lot more games and money?


Revenues

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $12,199,195 $646,937 $12,846,132
Football $8,381,452 $8,381,452
Total Revenues of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $331,527 $197,897 $529,424
Total Revenues $20,912,174 $844,834 $21,757,008
Not allocated by gender/sport $28,749,477
Grand Total $50,506,485


Expenses

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $8,133,188 $2,817,662 $10,950,850
Football $10,052,697 $10,052,697
Total Expenses of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $4,187,035 $6,893,247 $11,080,282
Total Expenses $22,372,920 $9,710,909 $32,083,829
Not allocated by gender $17,718,217
Grand Total Expenses $49,802,046

why don't you give it a rest with your completely fabricated stats? you have yet to provide a single source that indicates that dawkins makes "more than twice as much" as coach g and numerous people have posted links that directly contradict your claim.

personally, i think that both football and women's basketball should have a lot of explaining to do after this season because $2 million losses are enormous and not acceptable. if duke were a company, both of them would be a lot more accountable and required to cut these losses going forward.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=2818216


"Ginny Riley, 46, of Durham, has been a season ticket-holder for eight years for a program that plays in the shadows of Mike Krzyzewski's storied men's team. She came to the rally carrying a sign saying, "Duke can't afford to let Coach G go."

"It's clear that she's one of the nation's best women's basketball coaches," Riley said. "And we have her. It's ridiculous to think we can't keep her here at Duke.

"It's hard here," she said. "Coach K is the king on campus. Sometimes it makes you think if it's an ego problem in the athletic department. Does Duke athletics want as successful a women's basketball coach as a men's basketball coach?""


Why hasn't Brodhead or K or Alleva made any kind of statement supporting G or showed up at the rally? Brodhead was at the rally to keep coach K from the Lakers and was all over the news talking about how K was the most important person at Duke, where is he now? If K is the only successful coach allowed to be at Duke or paid enough to stay, Duke will become another one sport school like Kentucky, Kansas, Virginia Tech, or Nebraska. Even mens basketball could become a mediocre program, it already finished 7th in the ACC, could be worse next year with no center. With Dawkins probably taking over for K yet refusing to recruit, and with the bad track record of Duke assistants like Gaudet, Amaker, and Snyder, mens basketball could be worse than mediocre, what then? Students and professors will stop coming to the hellhole that is Durham, alumni will stop donating hundreds of millions, and Duke will plummet in the rankings. Consensus is that Duke can easily match Texas' low $800,000 offer, Duke athletics would still make a profit if Duke matched or exceeded that offer to G. Unfortunately this seems to be about power and respect and ego and turf.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=2818216


"Ginny Riley, 46, of Durham, has been a season ticket-holder for eight years for a program that plays in the shadows of Mike Krzyzewski's storied men's team. She came to the rally carrying a sign saying, "Duke can't afford to let Coach G go."

"It's clear that she's one of the nation's best women's basketball coaches," Riley said. "And we have her. It's ridiculous to think we can't keep her here at Duke.

"It's hard here," she said. "Coach K is the king on campus. Sometimes it makes you think if it's an ego problem in the athletic department. Does Duke athletics want as successful a women's basketball coach as a men's basketball coach?""


Why hasn't Brodhead or K or Alleva made any kind of statement supporting G or showed up at the rally? Brodhead was at the rally to keep coach K from the Lakers and was all over the news talking about how K was the most important person at Duke, where is he now? If K is the only successful coach allowed to be at Duke or paid enough to stay, Duke will become another one sport school like Kentucky, Kansas, Virginia Tech, or Nebraska. Even mens basketball could become a mediocre program, it already finished 7th in the ACC, could be worse next year with no center. With Dawkins probably taking over for K yet refusing to recruit, and with the bad track record of Duke assistants like Gaudet, Amaker, and Snyder, mens basketball could be worse than mediocre, what then? Students and professors will stop coming to the hellhole that is Durham, alumni will stop donating hundreds of millions, and Duke will plummet in the rankings. Consensus is that Duke can easily match Texas' low $800,000 offer, Duke athletics would still make a profit if Duke matched or exceeded that offer to G. Unfortunately this seems to be about power and respect and ego and turf.

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would you please stop posting this drivel. durham is a "hellhole?" i believe that most people who went to duke would beg to differ on that one. how will duke "still make a profit if [it] matched or exceeded that offer to g?" the program LOST $2 million dollars last year. where is the additional revenue coming from?

First of all, you clearly want G gone so that Duke can cut its losses and compared womens basketball to golf and cross country in terms of whether fans should care, so you have no credibility or support for your position among any real Duke fans. Duke has lost a lot of applicants already because of the lacrosse scandal and the whole nation thinks Durham is a hellhole where Duke students get persecuted by a hostile DA and corrupt police. Hell, people already had a very low opinion of Durham as a terrible, violent and boring college town even before the lacrosse scandal. Championship hoops is the only reason top students choose Duke despite the hellhole Durham. Duke athletics made more than $700,000 even with football losing $2 million/yr, so Duke could easily match Texas' salary or pay G $1 million/yr and still make a profit on athletics, which many/most NCAA schools don't do. Duke makes hundreds of millions in donations per year because of championship caliber hoops, televised basketball is the only way alums or fans stay connected to Duke, do the math.

Where did Duke find $25 million for a football only recruiting lounge that has only made the program and even recruiting worse? Every penny of that $25 million was wasted since Duke insists on the worst and cheapest football coach in the ACC by far, and insists on slapping the national coach of the year G in the face with even less money and worse contract. Duke has tons of money to throw around and zero logical reasons not to do it even for just purely financial reasons not to mention the priceless joy of having a #1 pristine sports program on TV 15 times a season and getting better. The question is does anyone want G gone because she's too successful?



Revenues

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $12,199,195 $646,937 $12,846,132
Football $8,381,452 $8,381,452
Total Revenues of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $331,527 $197,897 $529,424
Total Revenues $20,912,174 $844,834 $21,757,008
Not allocated by gender/sport $28,749,477
Grand Total $50,506,485


Expenses

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $8,133,188 $2,817,662 $10,950,850
Football $10,052,697 $10,052,697
Total Expenses of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $4,187,035 $6,893,247 $11,080,282
Total Expenses $22,372,920 $9,710,909 $32,083,829
Not allocated by gender $17,718,217
Grand Total Expenses $49,802,046

10 years ago Stanford's Vanderveer made more than G makes today as the best coach in the nation. Vanderveer just signed a new 6 year contract that probably puts her in the $1 million range just like that Iowa State coach and his 12 year contract. Is anyone not signing a million dollar contract besides national coach of the year G? What's going on with Duke, $800,000 is chump change, has Duke offered G a new contract or not??


http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly...r_21.TARA.html


"Publication Date: Friday Mar 21, 1997

VanDerveer now can focus on the task at hand

...By signing her new contract, VanDerveer has taken herself to the next level as the highest-paid women's basketball coach in the country. Reports say that VanDerveer will earn an estimated base salary plus easily earned incentives totaling near $200,000. Including other incentives, camps, endorsements and shoe contracts, VanDerveer's salary could approach $450,000 per year. Her contract runs through April 2002. "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

First of all, you clearly want G gone so that Duke can cut its losses and compared womens basketball to golf and cross country in terms of whether fans should care, so you have no credibility or support for your position among any real Duke fans. Duke has lost a lot of applicants already because of the lacrosse scandal and the whole nation thinks Durham is a hellhole where Duke students get persecuted by a hostile DA and corrupt police. Hell, people already had a very low opinion of Durham as a terrible, violent and boring college town even before the lacrosse scandal. Championship hoops is the only reason top students choose Duke despite the hellhole Durham. Duke athletics made more than $700,000 even with football losing $2 million/yr, so Duke could easily match Texas' salary or pay G $1 million/yr and still make a profit on athletics, which many/most NCAA schools don't do. Duke makes hundreds of millions in donations per year because of championship caliber hoops, televised basketball is the only way alums or fans stay connected to Duke, do the math.

Where did Duke find $25 million for a football only recruiting lounge that has only made the program and even recruiting worse? Every penny of that $25 million was wasted since Duke insists on the worst and cheapest football coach in the ACC by far, and insists on slapping the national coach of the year G in the face with even less money and worse contract. Duke has tons of money to throw around and zero logical reasons not to do it even for just purely financial reasons not to mention the priceless joy of having a #1 pristine sports program on TV 15 times a season and getting better. The question is does anyone want G gone because she's too successful?



Revenues

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $12,199,195 $646,937 $12,846,132
Football $8,381,452 $8,381,452
Total Revenues of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $331,527 $197,897 $529,424
Total Revenues $20,912,174 $844,834 $21,757,008
Not allocated by gender/sport $28,749,477
Grand Total $50,506,485


Expenses

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total
Basketball $8,133,188 $2,817,662 $10,950,850
Football $10,052,697 $10,052,697
Total Expenses of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $4,187,035 $6,893,247 $11,080,282
Total Expenses $22,372,920 $9,710,909 $32,083,829
Not allocated by gender $17,718,217
Grand Total Expenses $49,802,046

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Bluedevil,

Where are your stats from? Please post a link so that, at the very least, others can look at these expense v. revenue reports.

Its amazing that you think that the top students only come to Duke because of basketball. Are you aware that a large number of students on campus don't attend games or are not remotely interested in basketball? Do you realize that Duke has a world-class art museum on campus? Top of thier field professors? Pound for pound the best medical center in the country if not the world, where undergraduates have unparalleled opportunities to do research? I guess undergrads go to places like Harvard and Hopkins for the amazing Division I sports as well? I mean, both of those schools are in pretty rough neigborhoods...

As for your description of Durham, I would ask that you refrain from further denigration of a place you appear to have little knowledge about. Yes, there are some tough places in Durham, but that is true of any metroploitan area. I would ask that you refrain from again reiterating the phrase used above... surely you can be more constructive than that.

Yes, Duke should money up and pay Gail. However, is it possible that Duke might offer her a boat load of money, and she might just leave anyway? Hmmmm... I suppose that would doom everyone in Durham that is connected with Duke. Dang! I better drive up to Cleveland and start stuffing money into G's pockets.

Sometimes its about more than money. Why don't you just wait and see how this all plays out before you condemn Broadhead, Alleva, and Coach K to hell for driving G off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

10 years ago Stanford's Vanderveer made more than G makes today as the best coach in the nation. Vanderveer just signed a new 6 year contract that probably puts her in the $1 million range just like that Iowa State coach and his 12 year contract. Is anyone not signing a million dollar contract besides national coach of the year G? What's going on with Duke, $800,000 is chump change, has Duke offered G a new contract or not??


http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly...r_21.TARA.html


"Publication Date: Friday Mar 21, 1997

VanDerveer now can focus on the task at hand

...By signing her new contract, VanDerveer has taken herself to the next level as the highest-paid women's basketball coach in the country. Reports say that VanDerveer will earn an estimated base salary plus easily earned incentives totaling near $200,000. Including other incentives, camps, endorsements and shoe contracts, VanDerveer's salary could approach $450,000 per year. Her contract runs through April 2002. "

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Speaking as a Duke grad who moved back to Durham because he missed it so much, let me be the (second) to say:

your description of Durham is not only misguided, but ignorant. Durham is a wonderful city, with rich history, cultural diversity, and a pretty cool atmosphere.

You may or may not be right about the state of Duke athletics, but your belligerence towards both it and Durham speak highly of your motives in posting.

I've mostly been a lurker here since 2001, but the body of "bluedevil"'s posts have been inflammatory and critical of almost every aspect of Duke, from the students to the administration to the town.

Throw in a bunch of statistics with no willingness to cite references, and I smell an agenda.

bluedevil, back off on Durham. That kind of negative & ignorant talk is not needed, nor is it welcome.

Thanks MulletMan & jgehtland for sticking up for Durham, which happens to be my hometown. Many Duke grads, my parents included, loved Durham enough to stay here after they graduated. Could they all be so misguided. Durham is a truly wonderful place. Like any metro area, it has it's trouble spots, sure, but we're working on those in a frank & open way. Our unique history & diversity, as well as our gritty & cool atmosphere, have Durham now on a serious up-swing in the minds of many, including several deep-pocketed investors. If Durham where such a hellhole, I doubt you would get so many people to invest in it's future. So, bluedevil, try looking at the positive sometimes... or if you just want to be negative, do as my mother use to say: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

BTW, before you post anymore, remember that everyone here wants Gail to remain our coach. I for one support paying her more to keep her, but I have no idea on the amount. (I'll leave that detail to smarter/more informed people than me.) We will just have to wait and see how things play out.

Oh, and on football, if we could get more butts in the seats at Wallyworld, things might begin to change on both bottom lines, $ & W's. Have you bought your season tickets yet?

Your posts are useless and inflamatory, member known as "bluedevil". While I absolutely hope Duke ponies up the dough to pay coach G, we do not know the details of the discussions yet.

Perhaps they have already offered her the million. Could it be that Texas has better practice facilities, and split athletic directors, and be in a hotbed of recruiting? Who knows the important criteria coach G will use to make her decision? Probably only the coach, herself. And we don't know what Duke has offered her yet, so back off till whatever deal is done.

Also, I have no problem with the duke ASSOCIATE HEAD COACH, not assistant coach as you constantly refer to him as, to make a very good salary. He deserves it, and probably more. The issue is G, not Dawkins, so back off him. He is a great guy, great coach, and we are lucky to have him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

Duke football loses $2 million per year, and coaches like Franks and Roof can't win a single game in 2 years, but they make more money than national coach of the year Goestenkors and have more years on their contract even before they're hired, then get raises, contract extensions, and guarantees immediately following those 2 straight winless seasons. Why does Alleva wants losers like Franks, Roof, Hillier, and McNally to stick around forever but is so eager to get rid of a #1 coach with the best win percentage of any mens or womens ACC coach? And since Duke still made money on athletics with football losing $2 million, why doesn't Duke just use that $700,000+ to give G a raise?

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First, let me say that I hope Coach G stays at Duke. She has done a spectacular job and I certainly hope things work well for her and Duke in any negotiations.

That said, based on your figures Duke football does not lose $2M yearly (only $1.67M) but Duke Women's Basketball does lose in excess of $2M ($2.17M).
These are the figures you provide.

Duke football loses about 25% based on revenue/expenses while Duke Women's Basketball loses 450%. Duke Women's basketball is in the red over 1/2 Million Dollars more than the football team.

Your later comparison to Stanford is poorly advised since Stanford athletics are fully funded. Duke has no such endowment to fully fund all athletic teams. Consequently, some fiscal responsibility is essential.

I too would like Coach G to stay but the stats you've provided don't make a compelling argument for a nearly 46% raise. The suggestion that we take
36% of all Duke athletic profits and give that to the coach of the sport that loses more money than any other doesn't compute.

It seems to me a more reasonable argument is based on giving a substantial raise (but perhaps not as much as that offered at Texas--assuming, of course, that the 800K figure is accurate) because of the superb job Coach G has done at molding a fine group of women and developing a winning tradition.

One quick point: Durham is NOT a hell hole. Sheesh.

More to the point: who says Duke athletics has to make money? The school is NOT a for-profit corporation. The Economics Dept. does NOT make money, the grounds maintenance organization does NOT make money, and the entire food service operation does NOT make money. I could go on, but the point is clear.

Whether the athletics department makes money or not has no bearing on what the school pays or should pay or can pay Coach G. The school has more than enough money to pay her what it would take to keep her, IF money is the chief issue. The school just added three or four billion bucks to the endowment and raises 300 million bucks a year or so in annual donations. It has NO problem matching any salary offer Texas or any other school might make.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prefan21

I've mostly been a lurker here since 2001, but the body of "bluedevil"'s posts have been inflammatory and critical of almost every aspect of Duke, from the students to the administration to the town.

Throw in a bunch of statistics with no willingness to cite references, and I smell an agenda.

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fda agenda?

Wow, bluedevil. Is the sun even going to come up tomorrow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Virginian

One quick point: Durham is NOT a hell hole. Sheesh.

More to the point: who says Duke athletics has to make money? The school is NOT a for-profit corporation. The Economics Dept. does NOT make money, the grounds maintenance organization does NOT make money, and the entire food service operation does NOT make money. I could go on, but the point is clear.

Whether the athletics department makes money or not has no bearing on what the school pays or should pay or can pay Coach G. The school has more than enough money to pay her what it would take to keep her, IF money is the chief issue. The school just added three or four billion bucks to the endowment and raises 300 million bucks a year or so in annual donations. It has NO problem matching any salary offer Texas or any other school might make.

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true, but the guy who mows the lawn in front of the chapel and the head of the econ department do NOT earn $800K. neither do any of the coaches of the traditional "non-revenue" sports. if you want to earn that kind of money as a coach, you need to be generating revenue that is HIGHER (not lower) than your current salary.

the only reason why this is even being discussed is because of men's basketball. eliminate men's basketball from the equation and women's basketball just becomes another non-revenue college sport. nontheless, i was fairly shocked when i learned of the $2 million loss that it racked up last year. it really is ridiculous that schools now are expected to run women's college basketball program at such a fiscally irresponsible manner all in the name of title 9.