MBB: Duke 85, Penn 55 Post-Game Thread

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Originally Posted by jimsumner

I think MG can and will be useful this season in situations where Duke needs a big wing on D.

And I see some Chris Carrawell in him. Gonna be a good one. Down the line.

But. If we assume that Thornton and Cook will receive all or most of the minutes at the point from here on in, then staring MG, means two of Rivers, Curry and Dawkins aren't starting.

That simply is not a rational allocation of resources. Rivers and Curry have to be on the floor for a combined 55-65 mpg against better teams. And those minutes have to come from MG.

I do find it fascinating that, going into conference play, we're devoting this much time on whether a 12-1 team is properly using its 10th man.

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I guess we should all be complacent with a 12-1 record, but I don't believe Coach K and his staff are. Conference play, in the grand scheme of things isn't it just an arbitrary cutoff date? I'm not sure this team is like many others we've watched in the past. We entered the season with a lot of potentially excellent players, but none had clear established credentials to show that they could fill the roles they were being asked to play on this team.

As the season has progressed some of them have cemented their place and role on the team, while others are still searching to find themselves. The conference is said to be down this year and if that's true, then why wouldn't the staff continue to tinker with line-ups?

I'm just not sold that the team we are currently seeing on the floor is the finished product and that more changes will be made down the line. I guess we'll find out how all of this shakes out the next few games. If the bench gets drastically shorter, then it's business as usual, but if we stay with a deeper rotation then I think we'll be witnessing a subtle change in how things are done at Duke.:)

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Originally Posted by ncexnyc

I guess we should all be complacent with a 12-1 record, but I don't believe Coach K and his staff are.

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Who exactly is complacent here? Strange comment...

Consider the late season jumps in minutes and ask yourself if MG is likely to make such a leap:

Elliot Williams moved into the rotation to provide some on the ball defense after Paulus' minutes fell and Nolan got cracked on the head vs Maryland. Chris Duhon began to start and play more because Boozer broke his foot. Who else? It may happen as a result of need, but I think it's unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Duke71

I appreciate your optimism and your spin on the stats but I'll bet you've never donned a Duke BBall jersey in your illustrious travels...I have. ...

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I believe I recall being seated (actually standing - we rarely sat) in Cameron in the late 70's and seeing Kedsey in a Duke jersey.

If being a player imbues one with superior basketball insight, why are Clark Kellogg and Len Elmore such morons? They didn't just wear the jersey, they played in games, they started games, they scored points, they played in the tournament and won conference and/or national honors. And they still can't analyze a game as well as Kedsey can.

Bilas was a coach, and has taken his job as a professional analyst seriously - he is by far the best. Kellog and Elmore are lazy, just spouting the bs that they are fed by SIDs at each stop, and regurgitaing worn out opinions about teams and coaches. Dickie V is much the same.

Statistical analyses of so few games with such wide variation in factors is highly suspect, but at least provides some basis for opinion. I would suggest that Kedsey's experience over the last 40 or so years watching and breaking down college basketball games makes his statistical analyses more relevant than many opinions of those who may have "donned a jersey."

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Originally Posted by ncexnyc

What is the mantra concerning playing time on this board? Playing time is earned in practice and you have to be able to play defense.

Did anyone on this board foresee Paulus being relegated to the bench his senior year? I doubt it very much, but it happened.

What's one of Coach K's best traits, which we love to talk about, especially when putting Ol' Roy down? K's willingness to shape his team into a style that matches his player's abilities.

I believe myself and others still see a need for a large capable wing player on this team and we see that in Mike. Yes, there's a question on whether he can get there this year, but we see the potential. I like what I've seen so far in regards to Mike's physical tools and his basketball skillset as well. Again it comes down to what each player brings to the table and how that all fits together to make a cohesive team, only time will tell.

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I think that I said the same thing about Mike. He's a very talented player and will probably be a star for Duke. I just don't see him cracking the starting lineup. Does that mean he won't come off the bench against unc and hold barnes to 8 points. He could certainly do that. Look what Fred Lind and Robby West did. No one expected that either. I'm just don't see MG getting major minutes in many games. GoDuke!

There are 200 player-minutes per game. Every minute Gbinije plays is a minute not played by one of Dawkins, Curry or Rivers. Or Thornton or Cook, if Seth plays some at point. Or one of the posts, if MG plays at the 4.

So, the questions remain. Who would sit while MG starts? How would limiting PT for All-ACC caliber players like Curry and Rivers help Duke? Or should Duke forget about Dawkins, a junior, who's one of the nation's best 3-point shooters, in preference to a freshman role player?

Because, that's what we're talking about.

If Gbinije becomes a better overall player this year than Rivers or Curry, then that's a great problem to have. But that's a long way from happening.

I'm going to totally derail the back-and-forth, to post this, the first of a couple of shots from the gam (I had the opportunity to drag a long lens up to the crow's nest.):

It would be perfectly cromulent, should you click to embiggen:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6...83a1c07024.jpg

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Originally Posted by jimsumner

There are 200 player-minutes per game. Every minute Gbinije plays is a minute not played by one of Dawkins, Curry or Rivers. Or Thornton or Cook, if Seth plays some at point. Or one of the posts, if MG plays at the 4.

So, the questions remain. Who would sit while MG starts? How would limiting PT for All-ACC caliber players like Curry and Rivers help Duke? Or should Duke forget about Dawkins, a junior, who's one of the nation's best 3-point shooters, in preference to a freshman role player?

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The BEST way to get Josh and G some more playing time is to keep pouring it on and get big leads. The recent games they have gotten some good burn in were not close. This builds game confidence for these guys. A game closing O-rebound flush... thats confidence practice cant teach. Josh getting double digit points... Josh didnt sniff that last year and happy to see this from him. (more on this in General Observations)

Sooner or later we will run into a team that shuts us down and frustates us... (wether its that magical game where we look completely inept, or that game where we get lazy from reading too many of our press clippings) and when K is looking for a spark to build some momentum, have hustle, show heart, these are the guys that are gonna go in and try to get it done. Better he knows what they can do and that they have the confidence to deliver and not be a deer in the headlights.

General Observations and random ramblings..
My uninformed laymans view is that with Quinn stepping up the perimeter game is reinventing itself to accomodate him. prior to Quinns rise, we had a few games where we focused long stretches of the game on getting Mason and Miles post touches to run thru them and develop confidence. That was successful. We've gotten away from that to a degree...

Right now, Josh is getting those post buckets and G to a lesser extent. I cant help but think as Quinn becomes better integrated into the Offense MP1 or MP2 is gonna be on the recieving end of those post feeds. (Josh seems to be able to hit a FT so if we have foul trouble saddle MP1 or MP2 in conference play maybe he can provide a boost.)

I cant wait to see a game where the whole team brings their "A" game and looks good in all phases.
We've yet to see Duke play their best this year and thats very exciting to me.

I cant recall an extended game sequence where AR and QC were the primary handlers on the peremiter. (I get excited during games so I may have missed it) It seems that the staff prefers to have someone experienced paired with them. Stability perhaps?

I like the uptic in Miles game. Hes active and producing.