MBB: FSU 66, Duke 61 Post Game Thread

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Originally Posted by YourLandlord

Having Irving show up was the worst thing to happen to this team. They would be better right now if he never came. They forgot how to play basketball with him around and now they are just lost. It's like the days of JJ watching, but with Nolan and Kyle.

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a little harsh here I think. I agree with the fear of "watching" but the key here is also give some credit to FSU - they aren't known for nasty D for nothing. Their D is legit. No 2 ways about it. That's why they will win their share of ACC games... winning some shockers (tonight) and losing some shockers (Auburn.. bc they are awesome on one side of the ball (D) and pretty bad on the other (O). Singleton is the reigning D player of the year lest we forget. They have so many big bodies too with Kreft and James.. good grief if they had Xavier GIbson they are huge

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Originally Posted by DukeHoopsGuru

Not a fair statement. Take arguably the #1 draft pick off any team and they struggle. Take John Wall of UK last year and they are worse than this Duke team with 1st rounders and "great" recruiting. I think that is an unfair statement. You can't lose a superstar and not expect to take a dip.

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You misunderstood.

It's sad, because it's true.

It's a testament to recruiting, because it's true.

After the Miami game this game immediately stuck out as a potential L. FSU gets jacked up for Duke always ('02 and '06 were in my mind before they showed the graphic, also '93), and we were coming off a tough game against Maryland. I told my co-workers last week this one had me worried. I should have cashed my 401K out and taken FSU and the points. That said I don't see us losing again for awhile. FSU is just one of the teams that year in year out causes match up issues for us.

Next Play

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Originally Posted by DukeHoopsGuru

A road loss to a good team isn't the end of the world, but this is 2006 without Kyrie. It's scary how similar they are.

1. Redick = Smith
2. Williams = Singler
3. McRoberts = Mason (Both overrated white McDonald's AA)
4. Nelson = Dawkins (both 1 dimensional in what they do offensively)
5. Paulus = Curry (both good shooters, good hoops IQ, can't sniff a drive)

Again not the end of the world, but could see a Sweet 16 exit against a team just like this and just like LSU.

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Completely different team than 2006. That team had one guy that could hit from 3 (Paulus became a shooter his soph year). This team has at least 4 guys.

Against MD and FSU we have played the two best defensive teams we will play during the regular season.

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Originally Posted by JMarley50

Where are all the people calling out the negative nellies now?? A few of us saw this coming the past few games and we were bashed for speaking our opinions. Do you really still think we are a #1 team?? Still no need to worry? Still think that Mason will come around while giving the piss poor effort he's giving? Nolan and Kyle can only carry this team so far. The heart and fire is not there right now. Let's see how they respond...

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No need to panic. We were never going undefeated. This loss was a thing of beauty compared to the NC State loss last year and that worked out OK in the end. KS and OSU aren't dominant. Duke can play with those guys.

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Originally Posted by jv001

Our coach is nothing but class. In the post game interview, he did nothing but give FSU credit. Nothing like old roy, making excuses and throwing his players under the bus. Go Duke!

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K was very mild mannered in the post game. I was actually shocked that he thought we played with great effort in the 2nd half. I thought our D stunk it up. Maybe he was referring to the offense picking it up.

He offered no excuses. We just got beat. FSU was better tonight, in every aspect.

It's not so much that we lost, but how we lost that bothers me.

I know I just need to accept that, for the recent past and foreseeable future, Duke has been and will be primarily a finesse, jump-shooting team. But it's a shame, because I love watching good power basketball and post play. I guess you just take the good with the bad and be thankful we still have K.

But... if Kyle doesn't make a series of ridiculous threes, we're not even in the game at the end. Even when we cut it to 59-58 on Nolan's three, the ball never went inside the three-point line during the entire possession. That just not good basketball. I think I can count on one hand the number of times we made FSU defend the rim today.

As for the result, a lot of people predicted this would be our first loss, no biggie. But it's not fun to see your team get bullied and not really know how to fight back besides chucking up deeper and deeper threes.

K said in the presser that it was early and that we will learn from this There's no way to simulate Kitchens or Singleton in practice and Singleton contributed much last summer on the select team and is a great kid.

We played worse last year at NCSU and GT, but Miles and Mason need to step up ala Zoubs if we are to go far in March/April

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Originally Posted by ajgoodfella7

I actually was thinking people wouldn't be running for the hills already, but then I see people talking about K being out-coached regularly in ACC play, and Kyrie should have never come here, and this Duke team is the same as the 2006 Duke team, and so on and so forth. So, I think I'm just going to sit this one out because some of you guys/girls need a night to cool off.

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Krzyzewski is not a god. He is merely one of the best coaches in college basketball history.

Therefore, when the other team has every tool capable of beating Duke and uses it correctly and Duke doesn't have someone step up and have a career game of their own, all it takes is a solid game-plan and consistent execution to out-coach K and get the W.

Maybe you have a different definition of out-coach (maybe I'm merely speaking of being outplayed as a team), but that's mine.

Coach K nailed it in the post-game presser.
He said that we showed up to play, not to fight.
FSU showed up to fight.

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Originally Posted by jipops

K was very mild mannered in the post game. I was actually shocked that he thought we played with great effort in the 2nd half. I thought our D stunk it up. Maybe he was referring to the offense picking it up.

He offered no excuses. We just got beat. FSU was better tonight, in every aspect.

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I agree the D could have been tighter, but I think offensively, the team played with a bit more intensity and didn't get pushed around as much in the second half. Just my impression.

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Originally Posted by Bluedog

and if Kyrie comes back

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I doubt K can even faintly ponder that. How can we expect Kyrie to come back 100% ready even if he is healed? This is probably the longest he has ever gone not playing basketball since he was 9 years old.
Gotta hope our team continues to grow as it is right now.

This hurts...duke losses always due but I felt this one coming on like a bad cold. I thought even if we pulled this one out, and it never felt like we would, then we would lose the next....i think it helps us really...the players are probably being told to make certain changes and don't really believe in what they are told until a loss slaps them in the face. It makes them re-think what they are doing....only a loss does that. Watch out cavaliers!!

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Originally Posted by taiw93

I think the biggest negative change since losing Kyrie has been lack of ball movement. Nolan is a great scorer and a fantastic player, but he really does not distribute the ball well at all. Without Kyrie, we are over-reliant on dribbling and ball screens and not reliant enough on passing (and I don't mean swinging the ball around the perimeter aimlessly). We need to start making that extra pass!

That said, this was just an off game. We are still a very good team, though clearly not the best team in the country. IMO, that honor belongs to either Kansas or Ohio State.

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That Nolan does dribble the ball way too much in setting up the offense. Waste of time to get into our offense. When this happens, sometimes we end up taking a forced shot to beat the shot clock. This is where we could use another ball handler that can penetrate. Maryland and FSU stopped Nolan's penetration and with no post offense, we had trouble setting up an efficient offense. Too many turnovers and too many 3's. But I have confidence Coach K will work on our offense. 24 points in the first half set the stage for this upset. But I'm glad we don't have to rush the court like every team that beats us. We'll be back. Go Duke!

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Originally Posted by BleedsP287

More than Kyrie, we need some kind of inside game. That's what was missing. A rebound here or there and a put-back here or there would have helped a lot (and a few less of whatever that play is where we drive, split defenders, and fumble the ball away). We were one dimensional all night and didn't make the successful adjustments we usually do.

Every team has an off night. We're still very good. We aren't number one, but we could get back there if we get a big man to emerge and/or KI back. Helluva good start to the season in any case, it isn't often we go 15-0 to start.

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a lot of that fumble the ball away is due to FSU - their D really made me think of Butler on the guards last year... so strong at stripping theball...... but with Chris Singleton waiting in back . NASTY

Did anyone else feel they were watching the 2010 Butler Defense?

We lost, that's fine...Without Kyrie, it is obvious that on any day we can lose...

But, how does UNC Greensboro score more points against FSU's defense than we do? The loss doesn't really bother me, but for some reason, that fact does. :rolleyes:

I am not surprised by this result. FSU is one of the toughest teams for us to play on the road and has been for years. Before the season I picked this as one of our most likely losses. I am disappointed, but not disheartened. Contratulations to FSU. They played a great game and deserved the win.

I still think we are a top 5 team as I thought we were before the game.

I still think we will get better as the season progresses.

I still think we are the best team in the ACC.

I still think we can make a deep run in the tournament with as good a chance as anyone for an NCAA title.

Why do I think these things? We have plenty of very good players and a world class coach. We'll be fine.

I may be overly optimistic, but I think my expectations will end up being closer to the way the season will unfold than most of what I've read so far in this thread. We'll see.

Bummer of a loss, but not the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by TheRob8801

Krzyzewski is not a god. He is merely one of the best coaches in college basketball history.

Therefore, when the other team has every tool capable of beating Duke and uses it correctly and Duke doesn't have someone step up and have a career game of their own, all it takes is a solid game-plan and consistent execution to out-coach K and get the W.

Maybe you have a different definition of out-coach (maybe I'm merely speaking of being outplayed as a team), but that's mine.

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OK, but which coach does your logic not apply to?

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Originally Posted by taiw93

I think the biggest negative change since losing Kyrie has been lack of ball movement. Nolan is a great scorer and a fantastic player, but he really does not distribute the ball well at all. Without Kyrie, we are over-reliant on dribbling and ball screens and not reliant enough on passing (and I don't mean swinging the ball around the perimeter aimlessly). We need to start making that extra pass!

That said, this was just an off game. We are still a very good team, though clearly not the best team in the country. IMO, that honor belongs to either Kansas or Ohio State.

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and they too will lose a few games.

FSU played hard for 40 minutes and were very aggressive rebounding. I haven't seen the numbers, but it seemed we were soundly out rebounded. They also got a lot of offense from Kitchen and Singleton. The defense on them wasn't horrible, they just hit tough shots.

Mason did the best job in the rebounding department for us, but there was essentially no offense from him. Even a chippie from 6 inches was beyond him tonight. Lacking any inside scoring from our bigs was known to be a weakness, and it continued to show up tonight.

I thought the turnovers by our team really hurt. Dawkins, Singler, Curry and Nolan all had their share. The FSU defense really bothered us. Guys tried to dribble through a defender and their quick hands turned us over numerous times. My guess is we had something like 20 TO's

We shot a lot of threes and were way off for a much of the game. Both Nolan and Kyle tried to shoulder most of the burden, and for the team to be successful they have to. They got 39 between them and that was not bad, but sometimes they need to think of involving others rather than forcing the ball. The decision making needs to be better. Curry and Dawkins each had 8, but we got only three points inside from our bigs.


Our end of game execution was poor. Curry got the ball with a chance to even the game but he tried to dribble through two defenders rather than passing to an open Nolan. Singler took a very long 3 and Nolan rushed a shot. I though we had a chance, but the poor execution at the end was not getting it done.

Seeing Scheyer in the stands was nice. We needed someone like him to make good decisions. Kyrie would have helped a lot, but alas he may not come back this year.