Gbinije to transfer

I think that the front page piece is a bit of a reaction to the ever-present sentiment from a lot of Duke fans and posters on this board that Gbinije was some kind of cure-all to this season's ills who just couldn't get off the bench for some mysterious reason. There is a long list of Duke players who fans shouted for... Mike being the latest... who would have, should have made a difference. The reason that it gets old is because people seem to think that the staff isn't putting the best team on the floor to give us a chance to win. These cries for Player X are usually based on a high school highlight video (see Czyz, Olek) and have nothing to do with what the coaches are seeing in practice every day.

However, we do know that in several cases, Duke players haven't gotten onto the court for their lack of defensive prowess or inability to communicate. In recent memory, Elliot Williams actually played his way ON to the court by focusing solely on his defensive game under the tutelage of Nate. This was a case where we saw a player work his way onto the court... there is actual evidence.

It would stand to reason that there was a, or multiple, reason(s) that Mike didn't see PT this season. The front page article is analyzing those possible reasons in the context of what we know about K's program over the course of 30 years. There's no need to coddle the kid on his way out the door. He seems like a good kid, and we can wish him well, but we can also speculate as to why he didn't get onto the floor and why he felt that Duke was not a good fit for him. We can do this especially in light of the fact that we are also crowning him an All-ACC caliber talent without evidence to support that assertion.

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Originally Posted by FerryFor50

You sure about that? Because Taylor King managed to get into games and I can't remember him playing much D, even at Nova. :)

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You're right that he didn't play much "D"-kind of a constant scrambling around- and he, of course, bailed out of there, too. Never was sure if he took the initiative, or was pushed, but in fairness the extraneous factors probably had as much to do with it as anything.......

Several of you had posts deleted in this thread, and while moderators who are posting on a topic try to refrain from moderating said topic, there were clear flames from a troll that I could just not leave up until another mod had time to deal with them. I am sorry that some of you had your responses deleted, and be assured that I thank you for getting after the flamer in a constructive and pretty darn polite manner. However, since a number of the posts actually quoted the flame, I took them down.

No need to give further air time to idiocy.

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Originally Posted by thenameisbond

... I had similar expectations for Mike ... I expected his game to transfer well ...

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Looks like you nailed it :rolleyes::rolleyes: Now, where to?

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Originally Posted by -jk

An important thing to remember about playing for K: it's a team sport and players must work together (cf, "fist"), and without rigid structure imposed on offense or defense.

A player should know where his four teammates are. And where all five opponents are. And anticipate where the play is headed. And do all this without using a lot of set plays, but rather creating and adapting as each possession develops. It's tricky and subtle and very hard to learn. We struggled with this all year on D, and now and then on O.

Communication and awareness are vital. Calling - and hearing - a switch vs. hedge being the most obvious one on D; miss on that and someone's left really open for an easy shot. Anticipating where a player will be on O without a diagrammed play - Irving was a savant <sigh>. Seeing the entirety of the game flow, being ready to help on D, ... I think Andre often struggled to see the whole game, then would get out of position, miss an assignment, and sit. ...

G seemed to have a hard time adapting to this broader game K requires, ...-jk

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The key is how QUICKLY these decisions and adjustments must occur. I was recently talked into a Zumba class, and got a first-hand lesson in how Andre must feel. I always seemed to be a half-step out of rythym, or on-beat but in the wrong spot. I can imagine the frustration of someone like Mike, seeing inferior athletes playing while he sits, and watching them make the same mistakes that are keeping him off the floor. I would bet that Mike felt that he was AT LEAST as good as the other SFs in practice, and yet he still sat. And how do you learn to deal with the speed of real games when there is nobody in practice who causes sudden switches or the need to slide like Kendall Marshall? Some guys just have a better feel for the court ans speed of the game - its hard - and frustrating - to learn.

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Originally Posted by Kedsy

After Rasheed played PG for most of a recent high school all-star game, he was quoted as saying Coach K asked him to work on playing point in preparation for the coming season. Don't know how well he'll do, but I bet we see him stealing a few minutes a game at PG next season. ...

... As far as Seth at PG is concerned, while he stopped being our primary PG in early December this past season, he still played several minutes at PG in almost every game. I suspect that trend will continue. ...

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I really don't think Tyler played point guard. He was rarely the primary ball-handler. He has woeful skills at creating offense. Austin or Seth would typically play "point guard" on offense. Tyler may defend the point, but our SG will be tasked with offensive point duties until Tyler raises his offensive skill level.

DBR prides itself as being several notches above the competition. Its members are some of the brightest individuals around, who exhibit a solid knowledge of college basketball. You’ll find some extremely well presented cases for or against the various positions, which come up in the many different threads throughout this board. With all the intellectual prowess, which is often on display here at DBR you would think that the people running this site would have some home spun wisdom to fall back on. Namely the old saying, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”

I was extremely disappointed to read the DBR article about Gbinije’s transfer. Ol’ Roy would blush with envy over the character assassination that took place in the article. I’m sure if Roy reads it he’ll be taking notes for use in the upcoming season at UNC. Not only did DBR throw Mike under the bus, they popped the clutch several times, spinning the wheels over Mike’s still warm body.

As I read the article all I could think of were the phrases damage control and spinmeister. Surely Mike deserved better than this hatchet job. Was it really necessary for DBR to get its pound of flesh?

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Originally Posted by azzefkram

340 minutes out of a possible 6,800 is 5%. That would be slightly less than Quinn but more than Josh. Position doesn't really factor into it.

Assuming 900 players enter D1 each year, Mike's top 30 ranking puts him in the top 4% of all entering players. How unreasonable is it to expect an athletic top 30 recruit who happens to fill a glaring area of need to play 340 minutes over the course of a season.

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Playing time is not a statistical analysis. And expectations are meaningless once you lace'em up. If after all those hours of practice MG could not convince the coaches that he should be playing more then I assume that he just wasn't getting it done. As for whether he thought that was going to continue next year, I don't know. But I guarantee darn tee you that the coaches and all the players know down to the last guy on the bench who will be playing the most minutes next year assuming no one else shows tremendous improvement over the summer. It's not that complicated. MG probably saw the proverbial handwriting on the wall and decided that if he wanted to play more, he should transfer. There is nothing wrong with that. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.

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Originally Posted by ncexnyc

DBR prides itself as being several notches above the competition. Its members are some of the brightest individuals around, who exhibit a solid knowledge of college basketball. You’ll find some extremely well presented cases for or against the various positions, which come up in the many different threads throughout this board. With all the intellectual prowess, which is often on display here at DBR you would think that the people running this site would have some home spun wisdom to fall back on. Namely the old saying, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”

I was extremely disappointed to read the DBR article about Gbinije’s transfer. Ol’ Roy would blush with envy over the character assassination that took place in the article. I’m sure if Roy reads it he’ll be taking notes for use in the upcoming season at UNC. Not only did DBR throw Mike under the bus, they popped the clutch several times, spinning the wheels over Mike’s still warm body.

As I read the article all I could think of were the phrases damage control and spinmeister. Surely Mike deserved better than this hatchet job. Was it really necessary for DBR to get its pound of flesh?

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What part of the article was a hatchet job? The jist of the article was that playing good defense will earn you playing time. That point is fairly self-evident and hardly character assassination.

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Originally Posted by Des Esseintes

I'm guessing this is somewhat overstated. While the team might not have anyone with Alex's exact body type to send him against in practice, there is certainly plenty of talent with which to contend. Murphy can hone guard skills against our guard horde and post skills against the likes of Hairston and Ryan. And we might get Jefferson or Hood, rendering the issue moot. Even if we don't, we very likely bring in a wing the following year, so at worst we are talking a single season here. He will find plenty of practice challenges.

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Individually, sure.

I was thinking in context of a 5 vs. 5 scrimmage with all ACC caliber players, not walk-ons, though coaches are still a work around possibility.

With the current makeup of 5 guards, 4 bigs and one tweener it cannot be optimized.

If Alex is getting the practice against guys his own size as a PF vs. Ryan, Josh or Mason with MP3 one of the centers and one of the 3 the other center, the team he is competing vs. has an out of position WF, be it Josh or Ryan or Mason matched up with a small at WF.

If he is practicing with Mason defended by his bro, with Ryan defended by Josh and with Seth at one of the combo slots, Alex as the WF he can be guarded by Tyler who is not much of an offensive threat, by Dre who tends to camp out beyond 3 point line, or by Sheed who may be too small to really push Alex.

An 11th player be it Tony or Amile or Rodney at least for preactices, could alleviate this. So I agree in that case the point is moot.

Also agree it is likely a one year problem but an important year being Alex's first as a player rather than a red-shirt.

Hard to say after Mason and Ryan depart whether Alex will be a WF or a PF next year but this year he is the only bona fide WF.

Duke did do very well vs. top teams in early season last year with Dre as the WF and Seth as the PG, albeit with Austin too. So Dre as a starter with Alex as both Dre's backup and Ryan's backup is another possibility in games. These could both be replicated by Alex practicing with Dre to emulate the PF sub role and practicing vs. Dre (or Tyler or Sheed with 4 bigs already occupied agaisnt each other) in the Dre' sub role.

So you are right, almost invisible from a game perspective but has some potential prelude impact in practice that likely could be avoided if Mike were not transferring.

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Originally Posted by ArtVandelay

As for your point about Ryan's defense, I agree that he's probably better off guarding a 5, which is actually my point. I don't love the idea of him guarding a 4, particularly one like, say, McAdoo. He's really a "big" in terms of body type and agility, except with a more perimeter-oriented offensive skillset.

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zproperly rested, I think Kelly will more than hold his own against 4's, perhaps not so much against a sure fire pro like McAoo, but perhaps not so little either. Keep in mind the thinly stretched issue, and the concurrent need to stay out of foul trouble. Kelly is much smarter than the average bear in sizing up an opponent, seeing where the opponent is going with the ball given court configuration, his tendances, and what his strengths and ability to see options are. I think many players see those things before they are manifest, just before--call it ESP like if you want--but not "basketball IQ," at least in my view. If there is such a thing as IQ, what it measures I shouldn't know. Like they say in baseball, if you can't see it you can't hit it, and, if you know what is coming, your odds just increased.

Kelly's strength is that he knows what the offensive guy is going to want to do before the guy does, and understands how, also a function of when, to act to impede--to make the guy to do something different, that makes a high percent play to a crap shoot. To do this well, you not only need to see things others don't but create "tells", subtle ones that the really good players pick up and act upon, only the tells are phony and you are reay to move to take away what you lead the offensive player to commit to, with the intent to utilizing a style, perhaps a way of ringing the ball up to shooting, that you then cause the guy to alter and distrupt his rhythm and make a shot the guy has practiced a million times just enough different to make all the difference.

This is a big part of kelly's defensive game, that and those long arms, timing, and ability to get to shots from behind or from the side, so as to avoid fouls.

To play defense like this effectively, and defensive rebound, and shoot the three and be responsible for running the offense, and to do them effectively, Ryan needs more time, especially more time that he can count on, to rest and rejuvanate, and in the meantime, assess from the sidelines what is going out in the court and how he can improve play when he returns.

If Ryan sees less time, and if this new guy Sheed presents the speed, size, temperment, and arrange of skills that short snippets suggest to me he might well have, Ryan I think wiol do much better on the defensive end and will have the energy to play inside the three line as well. Sheed, in the meantime, might greatly contribute to Duke's offense: he has the body, smarts, and disposition to both defend very well on the exterior, get long rebounds, compete well for rebounds among the trees,shoot the passing lanes, and pose enough of a threat to get inside and hurt people that he will draw help defenders off shooters like Curry and generously give the ball up when he does. Getting inside the defense and 3 or 5 steps closer to the lane than guards commited to the three, I think that Sheed will create the type of passing lanes that will test Mason's ability to move without the ball and set defenders up so he will be able to make perentages in the paint that lead to easy scoring chances. I expect Sheed to get out on the break, show real speed but also the ability to make runers and finishers of his teammates. I really like this guy, and think that he will be very good.

Finally, when K said that G would have got more playing time if he showed better as a defender, might notK have been saying that he had a large array of outside players and therefore the only way for G to have gotten on the court to present as McClure-like on defense (You might recall that McRob's last year, Duke had a sufficating efense and that McClure did not switch off screens when guarding the other team's best exterio player but would switch when it would mean picking up that player. So, McClure would be guarding the best outside players the opponent possessed and would be dogging them far into the shop clock. McClure got plenty of minutes. Perhaps G did not have no McClure in him, McClure was a phenom in his own right, and saw no future in tryin to must an offense that had lots of skilled exterior players, all of whom could shoot the three ball. Just speculation on my part, but that is how I hear what K had to say about G; not that he didn't satisfy on defense, but that he could ot push Curry, Ryan, Dre or Tyler aside because he wasn't exceptional on the defensive side of the ball and there was no space for him that he could earn based upon his potential contributions on offense.

If what I just said approximates meaningfully the facts on the ground than G might not have seen anything changing for him anytime soon or perhaps at all during his time at 'Duke." That takes nothing away from G's game, nor do I think it dtracts from G's character or anyone else's. For players who have investe so much of themselves and self idenfications in being a basketball player, not being willing to consider transferring a program where there services were needed is, I should think being out of integrity with who you are. I think that few things could be worse than compromising on so important a matter without considering an attractive offer from another program, and taking it if the player likes and trusts what he sees. Playing ball in college, especially on a high level, is a big part of these kid's dreams. Giving up on them for a lesser role on a storied program for some might work best for some. For others it woul simply depriving one a real shot, probably not otherwise available, to live one's dreams. How can you be hatin on a young man for doing that.

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Originally Posted by tendev

What part of the article was a hatchet job? The jist of the article was that playing good defense will earn you playing time. That point is fairly self-evident and hardly character assassination.

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Here's how DBR authors do character assassination:

-Duke's way is defense and trust.
-If you do those things, you earn playing time.
-Gbinije didn't earn playing time, so he must either be lazy in practice and games and/or play bad defense
-Since he's so bad at those things, it's no big deal he left.

It's verbose and slightly subtle, but it's definitely still sour grapes. I never read these criticisms before his departure, and writing them after is the very definition of sour grapes and character assassination after the fact.

Here are some quotes from the article that are downright presumptive, snarky, etc.

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We’re not quite sure why Gbinije never got there on defense

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I'm not sure how you're sure he is bad at defense. They go on some ramble about the Kentucky game and Ricky Price, basically implying that Silent G failed to embrace some moment. Why don't you just blame the Lehigh loss on the kid and get it over with.

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We’re not ripping him. It’s just a quiet realization. Duke needed defenders;

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You're right Duke needed defenders. But to lay it at the feet of a freshman that he didn't step up his first year on campus is really lame. How many freshmen across the country sit the bench and go on to be not only good players but good defenders? Hell, how many Duke players do this? Zoubek didn't see much of the floor his freshman year. Surely he was bad at hustling and was doomed to play sorry defense.

I'm sorry, but when a player transfers, you don't rip him and say he must have been a bad defender and shown no intensity. Maybe you should have played hard and you could have saved our season. Goodbye, but we'll hardly miss you. That's just wrong.

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Originally Posted by Slackerb

Here's how DBR authors do character assassination:

-Duke's way is defense and trust.
-If you do those things, you earn playing time.
-Gbinije didn't earn playing time, so he must either be lazy in practice and games and/or play bad defense
-Since he's so bad at those things, it's no big deal he left.

It's verbose and slightly subtle, but it's definitely still sour grapes. I never read these criticisms before his departure, and writing them after is the very definition of sour grapes and character assassination after the fact.

I'm not sure how you're sure he is bad at defense. They go on some ramble about the Kentucky game and Ricky Price, basically implying that Silent G failed to embrace some moment. Why don't you just blame the Lehigh loss on the kid and get it over with.


You're right Duke needed defenders. But to lay it at the feet of a freshman that he didn't step up his first year on campus is really lame. How many freshmen across the country sit the bench and go on to be not only good players but good defenders? Hell, how many Duke players do this? Zoubek didn't see much of the floor his freshman year. Surely he was bad at hustling and was doomed to play sorry defense.

I'm sorry, but when a player transfers, you don't rip him and say he must have been a bad defender and shown no intensity. Maybe you should have played hard and you could have saved our season. Goodbye, but we'll hardly miss you. That's just wrong.

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Somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Its pretty clear that, and you seem to agree with this point, that Duke needed perimeter defenders in a baaaaaad way this season. No one is blaming Mike for our lack of defensive prowess, the front page article is simply stating that if he was a good enough defender, considering our area of need, he would have been on the court. He wasn't showing the staff that he was that solid stopper, so he didn't get on the court. That's all.

I have seen many people bemoan DBR's assessment of why Mike may have left, yet I haven't seen anyone else offer an alternative hypothesis for why he didn't get on the court this season. There must have been a reason, right? Don't you think that its conceivable that Mike didn't pick up the intricacies of Duke's D as a frosh? This has been the case for many players. Its not character assassination, its simple fact. That's part of what makes his transfer so disappointing, in that he probably would have made a nice jump with another year in the system.

The Ricky Price analogy is pretty apt, if you have any memory of the Kentucky game. Duke got up big and then couldn't stop Kentucky from getting into the lane and getting kick outs for open threes as they made their comeback. What would have been ideal was having a larger, quicker player to relieve Wojo on the defensive end. Ricky Price should have fit that bill, but wasn't used... most likely because he hadn't shown that he could be a lock down defender through the course of his career. We could have used a lock down defender on the perimeter this season, but it would seem that if MikeG had shown this ability in practice, he'd have gotten the opportunity to do this in a game. Don't you think?

And well it is unfortunate, it is very true that few players that have transferred from Duke have gone on to significant things at the schools they transferred to. Billy McCaffrey is probably the best example of a player who went on to big things, but in recent memory, which of our transfers even ended up starting? Boykin at Cal? Olek at Nevada? These aren't to speak poorly of these kids because they left or because of what they did later, these are simple facts. (Frankly, I will always be disappointed that Jamal needed to leave because he played with so much passion and energy and was exciting to watch. But did losing him cost us the National Title? Not so much.)

The front page article is a pretty reasonable assessment of what we know about the MikeG situation. There may be other things that we don't know. You need to check your attitude and go back and re-read the article.

While the timing of the front page article was a little, let's say, "obvious," I can't think of anything presented in it which was egregiously inaccurate.

To add to MulletMan's good points, I'm not sure why people keep saying we haven't seen enough of Gbinije to make any judgments about his defense. He saw the court this year for a grand total of two hours (1:51). True, that's not much in terms of a season's playing time. But it is more than enough tape to show that Gbinije had not yet become the lockdown defender we so badly needed last year. I have no doubt he will eventually get there -- he has all the tools -- but he simply was not ready yet as a freshman. That's not a knock on Gbinije; it's true for 99.9% of freshmen. And I don't think it is "character assassination" to acknowledge that fact.

Must admit, I do wish he stuck around, since I suspect he's going to be really, really good. But that doesn't make it forbidden to say that he wasn't quite ready this year.

But hey, that's my take. There's always the possibility that I just really am bitter. **shrugs**

I remember that Kentucky game in 1998 and after the game a lot of people thought that a.)Avery should have played more instead of Wojo, and b.)we should have gone to a zone defense. Once again reminiscent of the current Cook-Thornton debate. I don't recall thinking that Price should have been guarding the point, he wasn't that kind of player at all and besides he had long since entered Coach K's doghouse.

Also the point guard for Kentucky was Wayne Turner (the front page story had it wrong). Turner was a punk of the highest degree and is one of the primary reasons I hate Kentucky. He shouldn't have even been in the game. Shortly before the tournament he was accused of committing a hit-and-run. He was brought before a judge who decided to postpone the case until after the tournament so that Turner could play. When questioned about the Turner case, the judge responded something to the effect of "I love Turner, he can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass..." even though the question was clearly made in reference to the legal process.

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Originally Posted by MulletMan

The Ricky Price analogy is pretty apt, if you have any memory of the Kentucky game. Duke got up big and then couldn't stop Kentucky from getting into the lane and getting kick outs for open threes as they made their comeback. What would have been ideal was having a larger, quicker player to relieve Wojo on the defensive end. Ricky Price should have fit that bill, but wasn't used... most likely because he hadn't shown that he could be a lock down defender through the course of his career. We could have used a lock down defender on the perimeter this season, but it would seem that if MikeG had shown this ability in practice, he'd have gotten the opportunity to do this in a game. Don't you think?

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This is tangential to the point, but Price was not relevant here. Price wasn't an option to replace Wojo because Price wasn't a PG. Wayne Turner would have taken Langdon's or Price's lunch if they tried to play PG. The correct answer was Avery. He had the size and quickness to match up with Turner. But Coach K was committed to his senior PG, and wasn't willing to rely on the freshman Avery in such a big game. And Wayne Turner had his way with Wojo in the second half, beating him off the dribble and creating for others as Kentucky made up a huge second-half deficit to win the game.

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Originally Posted by MulletMan

And well it is unfortunate, it is very true that few players that have transferred from Duke have gone on to significant things at the schools they transferred to. Billy McCaffrey is probably the best example of a player who went on to big things, but in recent memory, which of our transfers even ended up starting? Boykin at Cal? Olek at Nevada? These aren't to speak poorly of these kids because they left or because of what they did later, these are simple facts. (Frankly, I will always be disappointed that Jamal needed to leave because he played with so much passion and energy and was exciting to watch. But did losing him cost us the National Title? Not so much.)

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I'd say that Elliot Williams did okay for himself at Memphis after transferring from Duke.

Seriously, I don't think that Mike G could not have done "any worse" than some of the other players on any given night. However, for whatever reason he wasn't given the opportunity to do so (meaningful minutes not garbage minutes) even in the wake of a Ryan Kelly's injury. If he had so many weaknesses to his game, I'm sure the coaches noticed his deficits during his recruitment? Hence why not redshirt him and allow him to develop versus basically losing a year of eligibility riding the pine. I wholeheartedly bid the guy farewell and hope he find happiness somewhere but I will not spew out sour grapes simply because he seeks happiness elsewhere. Heck, life is wayyyyyy to short to be unhappy whether it's at Duke or some other university. I just truly regret not seeing him have the opportunity to swat away a Black Falcon jumper or flush down a dunk in transition on a UNC's player's head! (I still think he would have been a good match-up against HB and other 6-7 or 6-8 players that wreak havoc on our undersized perimeter players)

A few comments:

1. I wish Michael the best at his next school.
2. The DBR story was a bit of a cheap shot because it implied his is transferring because he couldn't hack it at Duke and offered no support for that being the motivation.
3. I was puzzled reading people all season long who wanted to have him play more. As much as I would have wanted to have athletic wings out on the floor, he looked lost on both ends of the court. That said, there is no reason to think he would not have improved the next season.

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Originally Posted by UrinalCake

I remember that Kentucky game in 1998 and after the game a lot of people thought that a.)Avery should have played more instead of Wojo, and b.)we should have gone to a zone defense. Once again reminiscent of the current Cook-Thornton debate. I don't recall thinking that Price should have been guarding the point, he wasn't that kind of player at all and besides he had long since entered Coach K's doghouse.

Also the point guard for Kentucky was Wayne Turner (the front page story had it wrong). Turner was a punk of the highest degree and is one of the primary reasons I hate Kentucky. He shouldn't have even been in the game. Shortly before the tournament he was accused of committing a hit-and-run. He was brought before a judge who decided to postpone the case until after the tournament so that Turner could play. When questioned about the Turner case, the judge responded something to the effect of "I love Turner, he can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass..." even though the question was clearly made in reference to the legal process.

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If that judge made that comment at that time and in that context, not only is (or was) he ethically unfit to serve in that role, but he also doesn't know anything about basketball. Wayne Turner couldn't shoot a lick. What he was, was a big, physical point guard who could overpower opponents and get into the lane for shots inside of 10 feet, and for dish-offs to a very talented cast of teammates who would have a better chance to put it in the hole than Turner had himself. And Turner pushed it very well on the fastbreak. He did all of those things to dominate Wojo in the second half of that game.

And there's nothing that a callow freshman like Will Avery, who was no lockdown defender to begin with, would've been able to do about it either.

Count me on the side that says the front page article was unnecessarily harsh on Mike Gbinije.

His defesne was no worse that most incoming frosh, and it smacks of sour grapes.

The only redemption is the prior article hoped the transfer rumors were not true.

As for the joke about being one and done, with the transfer Mike cannot play next season and is assured of being at least 3 years in college. So no way to attribute that joling to reason why he requested the transfer.

Whole thing puzzles me. He could have accomplished the same thing by red-shirting this coming year and having 3 years of eligibility in a system he then had two years experience in, rather than starting anew, unless the desire was to be closer to VA home with Nova or G-town.

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Originally Posted by CDu

This is tangential to the point, but Price was not relevant here. Price wasn't an option to replace Wojo because Price wasn't a PG. Wayne Turner would have taken Langdon's or Price's lunch if they tried to play PG. The correct answer was Avery. He had the size and quickness to match up with Turner. But Coach K was committed to his senior PG, and wasn't willing to rely on the freshman Avery in such a big game. And Wayne Turner had his way with Wojo in the second half, beating him off the dribble and creating for others as Kentucky made up a huge second-half deficit to win the game.

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Okay the Bandaid has been ripped off. Duke/Kentucky is one of my top 3 most painful Duke losses. How many times did Wayne Turner "carry" the ball that game to get to the basket? Brutal officiating. If those calls are made, Duke likely wins that game easily and has a pretty good shot at winning the National Championship (perhaps changing the 1999 roster depending on whether Elton Brand decided to go pro after winning the title).

By the way, let me propose the "Silent G Transfer" as the perfect storm in terms of a high ratio of heat (passion) to light (insight).

A. Silent G was a highly regarded recruit.

B. He had obvious length and possible quickness not present on the roster and seemingly useful on a team whose defensive skills and intensity were often lacking.

C. Yet he played only 111 minutes in 34 games (3.3 MPG), so no fan could guage how good he was.

D. He transferred after his freshman year and will not surface as a player until November 2013.

Now, I ask you, what useful insights could any poster possibly offer on this topic?

sagegrouse
'But, of course, we all tried'