Tim Floyd/O.J. Mayo

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Originally Posted by kydevil

Yes, as far as I know.

Just my opinion but the times I have watched Mayo he has played pretty hard on defense.

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Granted I am not a USC fan and have only seen one of their games...BUT the one game that I did watch I saw numerous times where Mayo didn't get to shoot the ball on offense and failed to even run back on defense while the opposing team was breaking towards the other end. He does quite a bit of "standing around" on offense and defense from what I can tell, but many of you are saying he plays hard defense. I sure haven't seen it, but maybe I should withhold judgement until I see him play more. But I do know I saw possessions that he was not giving 100% on either end.

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Originally Posted by burnspbesq

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

Get a clue.

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Mayo's numbers
FG -43% he is 6th on the team and 4th among starters.
He is shooting 37.5% on threes.
Assists - 25 TOs - 38
He has hoisted 33% of his teams FGA, next closest is 14.6%.

My gut tells me he is not letting the game come to him as much as you would like to believe. He is not taking what is available in the context of the offense. He is the focus of the offense.

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Originally Posted by CMS2478

He does quite a bit of "standing around" on offense and defense from what I can tell, but many of you are saying he plays hard defense. I sure haven't seen it, but maybe I should withhold judgement until I see him play more. But I do know I saw possessions that he was not giving 100% on either end.

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I've watched three of USC's games during this young season and, IMO, your judgment is accurate. He was criticized more than once by commentators for not watching where the ball was on defense, and he barely moves on the offensive end. Will be interesting to see if there is any difference toward the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by Wander

Just to add one more thing, I am not a USC or an OJ Mayo fan. I am, however, a fan of not being intellectually lazy and I'm a fan of not repeating popular myths that don't have any truth to them.

Not only did Mayo not do "absolutely nothing" on defense last night, but, in my opinion, he played outstanding defense. I've watched him and USC a few times this year and I think Mayo is a very good defender. I do think that he needs to cut down on his turnovers and work on his shot selection, but his defense looks great to me. It's also worth noting that USC is one of the better defensive teams in the country - that wouldn't be the case if one of USC's star players didn't make an effort to play defense.

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Yeah, what in the hell are these guys talking about? Mayo played GREAT defense on Derrick Rose two nights ago. Listen, the kid doesn't have the best reputation in college basketball, but he's bought into the team concept at USC. The Memphis game is the 3rd time I've seen Mayo play in college and I was very impressed. Despite the fact that the game was cracked up to be Mayo vs. Rose, OJ did a great job of staying within the framework of the offense and not turning it into a 1-on-1 show. I honestly don't know which game you guys were watching. I like the way Mayo seems to be maturing and I think it's something others should laud as well..

After watching them play the other night, there's not a doubt in my mind that USC is one of the 15 best teams in America. You can call me crazy but if they can keep Taj Gibson out of foul trouble, they can play with anybody. This team made the Sweet 16 last year without Mayo, Jefferson and Angelo Johnson who all played significant minutes against Memphis. I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

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Originally Posted by burnspbesq

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

Get a clue.

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Right on. I have no connection to Mayo or USC but I'm so shocked by the posts I've seen on this thread, I have to comment again. You guys are really getting after Mayo unfairly. We've all "heard" about the stuff that went on with him in HS, but you can only go by what you see. And what I've seen in 3 of his games is a kid who is not putting himself above the team, who listens to his coaches and does what is asked of him; and I've watched Mayo's every single move when I see USC games on TV. Don't prejudge this kid based off of what you've heard on recruiting websites. Would you like to be judged on the things you supposedly did when you were 17? I know I wouldn't.

For the amount of non-warranted grief that Duke kids get, you Duke fans bashing Mayo should be ashamed of yourselves. In fact, now that we mention Duke, I'll say that Mayo's body language on TV looks a lot better than McRoberts' ever did.

Mayo will be on ESPN's E:60 next Tuesday. It looks like a lot of you should probably tune in.

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying ClassOf06 but the problem is that Taj Gibson has, to put it bluntly, sucked this year. I don't know why he isn't playing as well as he did last year and getting in foul trouble every game now. If he can get back to his previous form and stop fouling though then I agree USC is a top 15 team. Even with him being less than great, they played Kansas and Memphis really tough and that's impressive. I suspect this problem will improve by the end of the year and they'll be really dangerous in March.

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Originally Posted by SilkyJ

that's my guess, but I still don't give a hoot. I didn't even know mayo got in a fight with someone until it was brought up here...

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Really? I thought that the alleged "fight" with Hackett was fairly common knowledge. It seems rather ironic that someone should be taken to task just because YOU aren't up to speed on national basketball knowledge.

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Originally Posted by slower

Really? I thought that the alleged "fight" with Hackett was fairly common knowledge. It seems rather ironic that someone should be taken to task just because YOU aren't up to speed on national basketball knowledge.

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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The only reason that Mayo has been"taken to task" in this thread is for his on-court play. I personally am not sure whether I agree with those criticisms, as I have barely seen him play for USC. Regardless, nobody is talking anything other than offense and defense. Let's not get personal.

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Originally Posted by juise

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The only reason that Mayo has been"taken to task" in this thread is for his on-court play. I personally am not sure whether I agree with those criticisms, as I have barely seen him play for USC. Regardless, nobody is talking anything other than offense and defense. Let's not get personal.

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I wasn't talking about MAYO being taken to task. Here's the original quote:

"also, your post has little do to with what we are talking about, and frankly I don't even know (or care) who this guy hackett is. no one has any idea what you are talking about...so maybe you should get a clue?"

Person #1 told Person #2 that "no one has any idea what you are talking about (the "fight" between Mayo and Hackett)...so maybe you should get a clue?". In fact, I (and hopefully many others) knew exactly what Person #2 was talking about. I believe the statement "maybe you should get a clue" is just as much an example of "getting personal" as anything I said.

I don't care for Mayo personally. Are you now clear on what I meant?

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Originally Posted by slower

Are you now clear on what I meant?

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Yeah, thanks for clearing that up.

I don't know about Mayo's D, I've only seen about half of a USC game this year, but I thought this was interesting from ken pomeroy's site
http://www.kenpom.com/leaders.php?c=PctShots

This is the stat of players who take the greatest percentage of their teams shots when they're in the game. Predictably the top 15 or so names are always nobodies, decent players stuck on bad teams, or gunners who are sinking their teams chances. I was curious to see who would be the first "name" to come up, the first player from a big team who took a disproportionate amount of his teams shots when he's on the floor. Given where this is posted, I doubt its hard to guess who it was...

Interestingly, and also somewhat unsurprising, Gerald is the guy who takes the most shots when he's on the floor on our team, and his rate is 85th in the nation...

Not saying its undeserved, but still an interesting stat

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Originally Posted by shadowfax336

Interestingly, and also somewhat unsurprising, Gerald is the guy who takes the most shots when he's on the floor on our team, and his rate is 85th in the nation...

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I'm curious about how Ken makes that calculation. According to GoDuke, Gerald has taken 85 shots (FG attempts) and the team has taken 472 attempts. That comes out to 18%, where Ken says 32.3%. There must be an adjustment I'm missing somewhere.

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Originally Posted by burnspbesq

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

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i very much disagree. in his last 2 games, which were against the 2 best teams usc has played this year, he has shot 6-21 and 6-20. gunning from all over the place and hogging the ball are EXACTLY what i would expect from a one-and-done case. moreover, how do you have any idea that he goes to class and does his work? even if he does right now, let's see how much class he goes to after exams this semester. lastly, punching out a teammate isn't exactly indicative of someone who "gets along well with teammates."

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Originally Posted by Classof06

After watching them play the other night, there's not a doubt in my mind that USC is one of the 15 best teams in America. You can call me crazy but if they can keep Taj Gibson out of foul trouble, they can play with anybody. This team made the Sweet 16 last year without Mayo, Jefferson and Angelo Johnson who all played significant minutes against Memphis. I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

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are aware that usc lost its THREE top scorers from last year (young, stewart and pruitt)? the team this year, other than gibson, has very little in common with last year's sweet 16 team so i'm not sure why you are implying that this team is even remotely similar.

this team has 1st or 2nd round upset written all over it and losing to mercer at home simply was a precursor to it.

Its percentages of the shots taken while a player is in the game, not percent of overall shots taken. It basically adjusts for playing time, which is why Taylor King is second on our team in this stat, despite taking less shots than some other players. When he is out there we get him shots

King is actually first on our team, he just doesn't play enough to qualify to be among the national leaders

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Originally Posted by shadowfax336

Its percentages of the shots taken while a player is in the game, not percent of overall shots taken. It basically adjusts for playing time, which is why Taylor King is second on our team in this stat, despite taking less shots than some other players. When he is out there we get him shots

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Makes sense now... thanks.

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Originally Posted by dukie8

this team has 1st or 2nd round upset written all over it and losing to mercer at home simply was a precursor to it.

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They were playing without two of their best players. If Duke lost to New Mexico State when Henderson and Scheyer were out would we have first round upset written all over us? They should still beat Mercer at home, but using that one game as an example of why USC's going to be upset in the first round is a little ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Classof06

Yeah, what in the hell are these guys talking about? Mayo played GREAT defense on Derrick Rose two nights ago.

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I agree with that, but as I said I think there's a reason for that, which is that he wanted to win the "Mayo vs. Rose" matchup for his own hype...

When he wasn't guarding rose he wasn't playing as hard on defense, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Classof06

This team made the Sweet 16 last year without Mayo, Jefferson and Angelo Johnson who all played significant minutes against Memphis. I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

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you may be right, but that sweet 16 team lost pruitt and young, two REALLY talented players. on paper I agree, but we will see. I'm still waiting for a midseason blowup from mayo.

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Originally Posted by Classof06

You guys are really getting after Mayo unfairly. We've all "heard" about the stuff that went on with him in HS, but you can only go by what you see.

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I can go by whatever I like and I've heard enough about mayo for me to draw conclusions with regard to his attitude and personality.

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Originally Posted by Classof06

Mayo will be on ESPN's E:60 next Tuesday. It looks like a lot of you should probably tune in.

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ha. no thanks.

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Originally Posted by slower

Really? I thought that the alleged "fight" with Hackett was fairly common knowledge. It seems rather ironic that someone should be taken to task just because YOU aren't up to speed on national basketball knowledge.

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I was taking him to task for bringing it up at all because it was irrelevant to our conversation. as juise said below, i was commenting on his (mayo's) play and attitude on the court.

not to mention (and I could be way wrong here, but like I said, I hadn't heard of a fight and my brief research yielded the following) it wasn't really a fight and no one really knows what happened other than the people that were at that practice. the guy got an elbow from mayo during practice, and what I read said it easily could have been accidental. i also didn't hear anything about punches being thrown, people shoving each other, or hackett "fighting" back. the only thing I read said hackett got an elbow from mayo during practice.

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Originally Posted by juise

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The only reason that Mayo has been"taken to task" in this thread is for his on-court play. I personally am not sure whether I agree with those criticisms, as I have barely seen him play for USC. Regardless, nobody is talking anything other than offense and defense. Let's not get personal.

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a thank you

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Originally Posted by slower

Person #1 told Person #2 that "no one has any idea what you are talking about (the "fight" between Mayo and Hackett)...so maybe you should get a clue?". In fact, I (and hopefully many others) knew exactly what Person #2 was talking about. I believe the statement "maybe you should get a clue" is just as much an example of "getting personal" as anything I said.

I don't care for Mayo personally. Are you now clear on what I meant?

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just to be clear, the guy told me to "get a clue" and then what you quoted above was my response. so I'll stick with the old "he started it" and retire.

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Originally Posted by Wander

They were playing without two of their best players. If Duke lost to New Mexico State when Henderson and Scheyer were out would we have first round upset written all over us? They should still beat Mercer at home, but using that one game as an example of why USC's going to be upset in the first round is a little ridiculous.

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to be clear, they were missing hackett (because mayo punched him out) and diarra (who hasn't played all season and whom i hardly would call one of their "best players"). new mexico state made the ncaat last year (and was projected by many to make it this year) so i am not sure how you are comparing nmst to a truly terrible mercer team (they are 3-5 and have been blown out by harvard). duke could have benched its entire starting line-up and the B team wouldn't lose to mercer at cis.

usc, missing just 1 player (who was punched out by mayo), losing at home to mercer is nothing short of a train wreck. in the 20+ years i have followed duke basketball closely, i can't think of a single loss that even remotely approaches the utterly shocking and inexplicable nature of the mercer loss. so, yes, the fact that usc, despite all of its hyped players, could lose to mercer at home, in and of itself is reason for me to believe that this team doesn't have what it takes to make it to the final four.