Bonds indictment: 15 felony counts

[Bluedawg]

Barry Bonds indictment was handed down Tuesday:


Barry Bonds was charged in a new indictment Tuesday with 15 felony counts alleging he lied to a grand jury when he denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs and that he hampered the federal government's doping investigation.

On Tuesday, a grand jury handed up a superseding indictment charging Bonds with 14 counts of making false declarations to a grand jury in 2003 and one count of obstruction of justice. No new lies were alleged.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1071814.html

if he is found guilty I wonder if that would be enough to clean nup the record books

[Shammrog]

Barry Bonds indictment was handed down Tuesday:



if he is found guilty I wonder if that would be enough to clean nup the record books

Uh oh - here comes greybeard!

[EarlJam]

I must just chime in hear briefly to express my belief that this has gotten ridiculous.

I don't care for Bonds, but enough's enough. The dude doesn't belong in prison. They are really piling on.

-EJ

[BlueDevilBaby]

I think it's enough that MLB has effectively retired him from baseball by not signing him. But then again, you just can't lie to a grand jury. . . and get caught.

[wilson]

I think it's enough that MLB has effectively retired him from baseball by not signing him. But then again, you just can't lie to a grand jury. . . and get caught.

There's the rub. I agree that Barry* doesn't belong in prison, but he should have known (and he certainly had a lawyer good enough to tell him) that lying to the Feds under oath is asking for it. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for him. He created this mess by cheating, and then compounded the mess by lying about it in the most ill-advised of places.

[ugadevil]

I think it's ironic that when the people lie to the federal government, there's hell to pay. When the federal government lies to the American people, it's a question of whether or not we need to know the truth. Hmmmmmm....PPB it baby!

[Shammrog]

There's the rub. I agree that Barry* doesn't belong in prison, but he should have known (and he certainly had a lawyer good enough to tell him) that lying to the Feds under oath is asking for it. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for him. He created this mess by cheating, and then compounded the mess by lying about it in the most ill-advised of places.

See, I agree in principle with Earljam; it seems we should have bigger fish to fry.

The problem is, when someone this high-profile lies in a matter that is also this high-profile, the government can't let it go. Then, no one would take the grand jury seriously. So, they have to go after him now - and he did it to himself as wilson has noted.

(Not to mention that in a high-profile case like this, high-power egos come into play as well.)

[EarlJam]

See, I agree in principle with Earljam; it seems we should have bigger fish to fry.

The problem is, when someone this high-profile lies in a matter that is also this high-profile, the government can't let it go. Then, no one would take the grand jury seriously. So, they have to go after him now - and he did it to himself as wilson has noted.

(Not to mention that in a high-profile case like this, high-power egos come into play as well.)

I agree about the whole purjery thing, even if I can't spell it. That's where Bonds was just "not smart." And usually, I'm the first to speak up and say, "Hey, we live by laws. Don't follow them, suffer the consequences."

But this, for whatever reason, just seems different. The Feds went on a witch hunt and backed Bonds into a helluva corner. Not saying he's innocent (or guilty, though it seems that way). Just saying the Government was on a mission from day one to bury this guy in the ground. Yes, the "crime" is lying to the Feds, not the steroid use, but it's the hunt for the latter that started the whole domino effect.

I've made it clear that Bonds is not a favorite of mine, and I don't think I'd vote him into the Hall of Fame (still undecided). But come on. Lock this guy up and we are just wasting prison space and $$$ and destroying someone's life in the process. To my knowledge, Bonds has NEVER been a threat to society and has a great relationship with his son.

I don't know. Something about all of this just seems excessively wrong.

-EarlJam

[allenmurray]

I agree about the whole purjery thing, even if I can't spell it. That's where Bonds was just "not smart." And usually, I'm the first to speak up and say, "Hey, we live by laws. Don't follow them, suffer the consequences."

But this, for whatever reason, just seems different. The Feds went on a witch hunt and backed Bonds into a helluva corner. Not saying he's innocent (or guilty, though it seems that way). Just saying the Government was on a mission from day one to bury this guy in the ground. Yes, the "crime" is lying to the Feds, not the steroid use, but it's the hunt for the latter that started the whole domino effect.

I've made it clear that Bonds is not a favorite of mine, and I don't think I'd vote him into the Hall of Fame (still undecided). But come on. Lock this guy up and we are just wasting prison space and $$$ and destroying someone's life in the process. To my knowledge, Bonds has NEVER been a threat to society and has a great relationship with his son.

I don't know. Something about all of this just seems excessively wrong.

-EarlJam

I think to a large extent I agree - locking him up does no one any good. But it still leaves the question, What should be his penalty for lying to a Federal Grand Jury? That can't just be ignored. And a fine is pretty meaningless to someone as rich as he is.

[bdh21]

To my knowledge, Bonds has NEVER been a threat to society and has a great relationship with his son.


Not punishing Bonds could set a dangerous precedent for our rule-of-law society. If Barry Bonds is found to have committed a crime, why on earth shouldn't he be punished to the extent prescribed by federal law?

[EarlJam]

Not punishing Bonds could set a dangerous precedent for our rule-of-law society. If Barry Bonds is found to have committed a crime, why on earth shouldn't he be punished to the extent prescribed by federal law?

I can't really argue that point. It's a good point, and I understand that. I'm just saying it never should have come to this in the first place. The Feds pounced on Bonds with such ferocity (is that a word?) that he was pinned between having two choices: 1) Lying or 2) Committing career/legacy suicide that would likely keep him out of the Hall of Fame for the sport he's loved and had given so much to.

My God. I sound like a Bonds lover. I'm not. I just think there's been way too much "hammer" put down on this guy, considering the tons of other, way more significant issues going on in the world today. He's a freakin' baseball player.

So, to summarize: I agree with your point. He needs to be punished for lying under oath. There's no other choice now. I just think it's crazy that one man (or a few men) is/are having to take it up the shaft for something that was quite widespread in the sport - and something that MLB didn't exactly go out of the way to deter. They're really piling on and to be honest, I'm beginning to feel for Bonds.

-EarlJam

[xenic]

Not punishing Bonds could set a dangerous precedent for our rule-of-law society. If Barry Bonds is found to have committed a crime, why on earth shouldn't he be punished to the extent prescribed by federal law?

What ever happened to Chris Weber? Didn't he get caught lying to a grand jury?

[Channing]

Marion Jones just started her 6 month sentence for essentially the same thing. There is no way they can't go after Bonds now. If he had been willing to fess up and tarnish his reputation he would not even be sniffing prison - heck there would probably be zero legal repercussions. But he lied to the federal grand jury and that is a big no no.

[pamtar]

Wondering into the innards of an Earl Jam post is confusing. However, perjury is an easy one. Per and jury. Its court and there's a jury. Per+jury. Its kinda like manewer. Ma+newer! ;)

[bdh21]

What ever happened to Chris Weber? Didn't he get caught lying to a grand jury?

Webber pled guilty to one count of criminal contempt. I don't know if a plea deal would have been enough to avoid jail time in Bond's case, but presumably it was in Webber's.

[bdh21]

I can't really argue that point. It's a good point, and I understand that. I'm just saying it never should have come to this in the first place. The Feds pounced on Bonds with such ferocity (is that a word?) that he was pinned between having two choices: 1) Lying or 2) Committing career/legacy suicide that would likely keep him out of the Hall of Fame for the sport he's loved and had given so much to.


A mother's advice is the best advice: honest is the best policy. Bonds knowingly and willingly took steroids (I'm assuming). That was his own choice. He also knowingly lied to a court of law when they asked him about it. It's hard to have sympathy for someone who faces ruin not because of poor fortune, but because of the direct consequences of the choices they made.

Buuuuuut, these issues are never cut and dry. A former president got off the hook for essentially the same crime and is still met with widespread support. (I'm sorry, I'm not trying to move this to the PPB)

[ugadevil]

What ever happened to Chris Weber? Didn't he get caught lying to a grand jury?

He was sent to Detriot. People don't realize it but that was his prison sentence.:D

[Jim3k]

In April, cyclist Tammy Thomas was convicted of perjury and obstruction (http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=afp-cyclingusadopingthomasbalcosteroids&prov=afp&type=lgns) for lying to the grand jury in this very same BALCO investigation. She did the exact same thing Bonds did and for the same reasons, with the same excuses. She won't be sentenced until July 18.

Why shouldn't he be treated the exact same way?

OTOH, her outburst in court is entirely understandable and fits with EJ's concern.

[hc5duke]

In April, cyclist Tammy Thomas was convicted of perjury and obstruction (http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=afp-cyclingusadopingthomasbalcosteroids&prov=afp&type=lgns) for lying to the grand jury in this very same BALCO investigation. She did the exact same thing Bonds did and for the same reasons, with the same excuses. She won't be sentenced until July 18.

Why shouldn't he be treated the exact same way?

OTOH, her outburst in court is entirely understandable and fits with EJ's concern.

I was curious so I googled her name... This is the female athlete who claims to have never taken steroids:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/322518981_04c0c0494e_o.jpg

[ugadevil]

I was curious so I googled her name... This is the female athlete who claims to have never taken steroids:


Is that really her? This has to be a joke.

[bdh21]

Oh my god!

[allenmurray]

It seems that is an actual, undoctored photo.

From the San Francisco Chronicle Story: Thursday, March 27, 2008

Former cycling champion Tammy Thomas seemed to be in the midst of shaving her face when an Olympic drug tester (Tom McVay) paid her an unannounced visit in 2002, according to testimony Wednesday in her trial on perjury charges.

The visit was memorable, McVay said, because of Thomas' appearance when she answered his knock on her apartment door.

Thomas had a deep voice, full beard, chest hair and even signs of male pattern baldness, Dr. Margaret Weirman testified.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/26/BAP4VR1RP.DTL

[blublood]

Is that really her? This has to be a joke.

Wow, it's actually not. That same photo ran in VeloNews and the New York Post. Best I don't comment on that and get back to work!

[ugadevil]

It seems that is an actual, undoctored photo.



Hmmmm...the reason I'm confused is because I've seen a picture of that individual before. When I saw it, someone explained to me that it's Earljam's mom.

[JasonEvans]

Here is another photo of Thomas during "her" competitive days.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09sAaMb5OE6Qd/340x.jpg

And here is a photo of "her" from just a few months ago at "her" trial.

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/03/30/amd_tammy2.jpg

--Jason "I have not been able to find any evidence that the manish photo of her is a fake" Evans

[greybeard]

If EarlJam gets a vote on whether Bonds gets into the Hall, I want one too! No one should be putting Bonds in jail using my and EarlJam's money to do it because we don't want them to.

They should use the money being spent on this steroid witch hunt to help people who are killing themselves because of credit card debt and because the Republican Congress passed a so-called reform of the bankrupcy law that makes credit card debtors indentured servants for life.

Or, they can give the money to EarlJam who I have a feeling would be willing to use it to throw a big party for all of us. Me, I'd just spend it on food.

[Bluedawg]

Marion Jones just started her 6 month sentence for essentially the same thing. There is no way they can't go after Bonds now. If he had been willing to fess up and tarnish his reputation he would not even be sniffing prison - heck there would probably be zero legal repercussions. But he lied to the federal grand jury and that is a big no no.

She also had to return her metals and her records are wiped off. MLB should follow the same suite.

[EarlJam]

Here is another photo of Thomas during "her" competitive days.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09sAaMb5OE6Qd/340x.jpg

And here is a photo of "her" from just a few months ago at "her" trial.

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/03/30/amd_tammy2.jpg

--Jason "I have not been able to find any evidence that the manish photo of her is a fake" Evans

Transvestite?

[EarlJam]

Hmmmm...the reason I'm confused is because I've seen a picture of that individual before. When I saw it, someone explained to me that it's Earljam's mom.

No way man! My mom's HOT! Should see her in a pair of jeans shakin' that thang! EarlJam's mom has got it going on!

I just threw up.

-EarlJam

[ugadevil]

No way man! My mom's HOT! Should see her in a pair of jeans shakin' that thang! EarlJam's mom has got it going on!

I just threw up.

-EarlJam

Seeing as how you just talked about being my dad in another thread today, I guess you're now talking about my grandmother.