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VaDukie
03-06-2011, 11:08 AM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

hudlow
03-06-2011, 11:17 AM
Always.

cbnaylor
03-06-2011, 11:18 AM
Its got to start with defense. Period.

Son of Mojo
03-06-2011, 11:18 AM
Always on board--no wavering here.

VaDukie
03-06-2011, 11:20 AM
Its got to start with defense. Period.

I'm with you there.

Dr. Tina
03-06-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm always on board, too! We definitely need to improve, though.

Fuqua's Finest
03-06-2011, 11:37 AM
Will always be on board, but can't support the Ryan Kelly line. When you're 6'11 and go 0-3 to start the game behind 3-pt range, you have to switch it up. Go to the inside, fight for some rebounds, take some fouls from the other bigs.

I honestly just wish K would go with the 3-guard lineup more often, but thats why he makes the big bucks and I just watch from the couch every game day.

Without Dre being an integral part of our offense (10-12 points a game), we have no shot of making it past the Sweet 16. Having Dre ride the pine for 32 minutes a game takes away from our perimeter advantage. Heck, its obvious we're going to shoot 20+ 3's a game from now on. We might as well get our best 3-pt shooters shooting them. More Dre bombs and less Kelly bricks.

MCFinARL
03-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Will always be on board, but can't support the Ryan Kelly line. When you're 6'11 and go 0-3 to start the game behind 3-pt range, you have to switch it up. Go to the inside, fight for some rebounds, take some fouls from the other bigs.

I honestly just wish K would go with the 3-guard lineup more often, but thats why he makes the big bucks and I just watch from the couch every game day.

Without Dre being an integral part of our offense (10-12 points a game), we have no shot of making it past the Sweet 16. Having Dre ride the pine for 32 minutes a game takes away from our perimeter advantage. Heck, its obvious we're going to shoot 20+ 3's a game from now on. We might as well get our best 3-pt shooters shooting them. More Dre bombs and less Kelly bricks.

Agree with this. It's fine to say we trust our players, but we should trust them to figure it out when they are no longer hitting their shot and try something else. In defense of Kelly, the team kept sending him the ball for that shot, so I guess that's a message he should take it--so why are they still running that play over and over when it isn't working, and hasn't been, really, for a couple of weeks? And why, at least once, couldn't Dre have been over there to take the shot? I know sometimes people have questions about Andre's defense, which seems to come and go--but I thought last night he was defending as well as most of the Duke players (just about everybody had their share of errors).

Kedsy
03-06-2011, 12:20 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

I am with you. I agree with cbnaylor that defense comes first.

Devilsfan
03-06-2011, 12:23 PM
I like "most" of your points.

milkbone
03-06-2011, 12:34 PM
I will never not be on board.

Oriole Way
03-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Its got to start with defense. Period.

I'm on board. This team still has the pieces to win a championship.

I agree the defense needs to improve significantly. However, I believe it is even more important for the team to fix its offense, which has become stagnant.

If you watched Coach K's presser last night, he said that he believed our inability to hit open shots directly led to our poor defense last night. Duke in particular is a team which feeds off of hitting open shots, not just because it puts points on the board, but because it's easier to set up our defense after a made field goal. This is true for most teams, but especially for Duke, which is susceptible to being punished by any team which is capable of running in transition after defensive rebounds on their end.

Furthermore, I think it will be easier to fix our offensive problems, especially considering a better offense will directly lead to a better defense simultaneously. This is not a defensively talented team from a physical standpoint. Our lateral quickness at 3 out of the 5 starting positions is mediocre, even though Singler is both a great man and help defender. Curry often gets into foul trouble because of how he plays defensively as well. Tuning down our man defense so that it doesn't stress overplays, switching, and hedging will also go a long way to fixing our defensive woes.

HDB
03-06-2011, 12:42 PM
Will always be on board, but can't support the Ryan Kelly line. When you're 6'11 and go 0-3 to start the game behind 3-pt range, you have to switch it up. Go to the inside, fight for some rebounds, take some fouls from the other bigs.

I honestly just wish K would go with the 3-guard lineup more often, but thats why he makes the big bucks and I just watch from the couch every game day.

Without Dre being an integral part of our offense (10-12 points a game), we have no shot of making it past the Sweet 16. Having Dre ride the pine for 32 minutes a game takes away from our perimeter advantage. Heck, its obvious we're going to shoot 20+ 3's a game from now on. We might as well get our best 3-pt shooters shooting them. More Dre bombs and less Kelly bricks.

I think inserting Andre into the lineup would be good for our offense. In particular, I'd like what it would do for Kyle. Instead of having a guy like Barnes checking him against UNC, it would have been Henson. Kyle is a tough check for a big guy used to playing close to the basket. However, I suspect we won't see this lineup as it would compromise our D too much.

cameroncrazy3104
03-06-2011, 12:50 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

That just pumped me up...lets go get it baby! the drive for 5!

dbd4ever
03-06-2011, 12:56 PM
I think inserting Andre into the lineup would be good for our offense. In particular, I'd like what it would do for Kyle. Instead of having a guy like Barnes checking him against UNC, it would have been Henson. Kyle is a tough check for a big guy used to playing close to the basket. However, I suspect we won't see this lineup as it would compromise our D too much.

Always in and ready to support this team through whatever. I like this idea and Andre looked good against Barnes in limited action. I say let's try it. He needs a confidence boost and we need his offensive firepower. Period. Go Duke.

Class of '94
03-06-2011, 12:57 PM
I'm on board. This team still has the pieces to win a championship.

I agree the defense needs to improve significantly. However, I believe it is even more important for the team to fix its offense, which has become stagnant.

If you watched Coach K's presser last night, he said that he believed our inability to hit open shots directly led to our poor defense last night. Duke in particular is a team which feeds off of hitting open shots, not just because it puts points on the board, but because it's easier to set up our defense after a made field goal. This is true for most teams, but especially for Duke, which is susceptible to being punished by any team which is capable of running in transition after defensive rebounds on their end.

Furthermore, I think it will be easier to fix our offensive problems, especially considering a better offense will directly lead to a better defense simultaneously. This is not a defensively talented team from a physical standpoint. Our lateral quickness at 3 out of the 5 starting positions is mediocre, even though Singler is both a great man and help defender. Curry often gets into foul trouble because of how he plays defensively as well. Tuning down our man defense so that it doesn't stress overplays, switching, and hedging will also go a long way to fixing our defensive woes.

I'm aboard and all in as well; and I agree with your analysis cbnaylor. I think the team needs to continue to focus on defense and rebounding along with more offensive balance.

MChambers
03-06-2011, 01:23 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

Agree with all of your points. Jeeze, we lost a player (to injury, not transfer like some other schools) who many think will be a top three pick in the draft if he decides, and we're still in the fight for a number one seed? We are very fortunate.

richardjackson199
03-06-2011, 02:10 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

I love your post. However, I am not on board. Without KI, this team cannot repeat as national champions and probably cannot make it to Houston. This team has been trying to figure out its identity since Irving went down. If they were going to find it, they would have done so by now. Their identity is a very good team, but not an elite team. They are the second best team in one of the weaker BCS conferences. Duke has been overrated in the rankings since Irving went down because half our games have been in Cameron (a tremendous home court advantage) and because we've been playing weak ACC competition. We have no more games in Cameron, and NCAA tourney competition will be much tougher than acc games. Without KI, I believe Kansas will win the NC. I'll be rooting for Duke, but when we lose I'll be cheering for Pitt. I predict Ohio St. & UNC will not make the Final 4. Kansas and Pitt will. The other 2 teams will be random from the field. I believe there is zero chance KI returns next year. However, I'm starting to think there is a reasonable chance he returns this year. If Duke would make an announcement that he is definitely done for the year, that would really help the team move forward with the players we have. Not making the announcement is very distracting psychologically. Coach K is a psychological genius. So given no announcement yet, there must be a reasonable chance KI returns this year. If he comes back, Duke can repeat as national champions, and you bet I'm on board. I think we'll win every game with KI (a game against Kansas would be a tossup). Other predictions:
NPOY - Jimmer Fredette
National Coach of the Year - Steve Lavin
ACC Player of the Year - Nolan Smith
ACC Defensive Player of the Year - John Henson
ACC Rookie of the Year - Harrison Barnes
ACC Coach of the Year - Roy Williams
I would love to be proven wrong on all the above predictions. I love our players and coaches. I would not trade them for anybody. Watching this Duke team always makes me very proud to be a Dukie, and that included last night against UNC. Go Duke!

cbarry
03-06-2011, 02:21 PM
I love Duke, but I have to agree 100% with richardjackson199. We built the team around Kyrie, and looked pretty darned good before his injury. His loss is simply too much for us to overcome. Here's my analogy:

Duke WITH Kyrie is like a Ferrari-- looks beautiful, drives like a dream. The complete package.

Losing Kyrie is like having engine failure. The engine was then replaced with a Toyota engine. The Ferrari still looks the same on the outside, and the Toyota engine is decent enough for driving around town and to work. But when the car needs top performance on the autobahn, the Toyota engine really can't keep up with the other sports cars.

Duke4life92
03-06-2011, 02:31 PM
I love your post. However, I am not on board :(
A true duke fan should always be on board and support your team,don't like the way there playing,fine,but always be on board and support the Devils.JMO,,I'll always be behind Duke and i'd hope all true devil fans will be too....Lets be better than the heel fans are to there team when there down on them.

richardjackson199
03-06-2011, 02:40 PM
A true duke fan should always be on board and support your team,don't like the way there playing,fine,but always be on board and support the Devils.JMO,,I'll always be behind Duke and i'd hope all true devil fans will be too....Lets be better than the heel fans are to there team when there down on them.

Of course I support Duke wholeheartedly. My point was that I don't believe they're good enough to win a NC or probably make it to Houston without KI. Duke is my alma mater, and now I'm a grad student at Wake Forest. I also support Wake athletics, but I don't believe the deacs are good enough to make it to Houston this year either. Go Duke!

Devilsfan
03-06-2011, 02:43 PM
Gotch ya Leonardo. You can be on board but still be a little critical on your own teams meassage board when you see something you would like changed. Let Seth, Nolan and Dre take the majority of threes.

ns7
03-06-2011, 02:48 PM
Of course I support Duke wholeheartedly. My point was that I don't believe they're good enough to win a NC or probably make it to Houston without KI. Duke is my alma mater, and now I'm a grad student at Wake Forest. I also support Wake athletics, but I don't believe the deacs are good enough to make it to Houston this year either. Go Duke!

Who is good enough to make it to Houston?

Ohio State? They must be out because they lost by 13 at Purdue
Kansas? They must be out because they lost by 16! at KSU and by 11! at home to Texas
Texas? They lost by 17 on the road to Southern Cal
Pittsburgh? They've lost two games at home
UNC? They lost by 20!!! at Georgia Tech
Purdue? They lost yesterday to a mediocre Iowa team

The lesson here is that no one is perfect. Duke is 27-4 and #3 in the country according to the objective kenpom.com. I like our chances against everyone in the country. If non-Seth players shoot 0-16 from 3 against at top 10 team on the road, then we deserve to lose. But I'm betting that won't happen again this year.

MChambers
03-06-2011, 02:59 PM
If non-Seth players shoot 0-16 from 3 against at top 10 team on the road, then we deserve to lose. But I'm betting that won't happen again this year.
Pretty safe bet, since the rest of the games are tournament games. Although we did have road games in the regional and national finals last year.

I agree with your overall analysis, however.

ns7
03-06-2011, 03:16 PM
Pretty safe bet, since the rest of the games are tournament games. Although we did have road games in the regional and national finals last year.

I agree with your overall analysis, however.

Playing UNC in Greensboro would be a road game ;)

Nice catch though.

Richard Berg
03-06-2011, 03:28 PM
Without Dre being an integral part of our offense (10-12 points a game), we have no shot of making it past the Sweet 16. Having Dre ride the pine for 32 minutes a game takes away from our perimeter advantage. Heck, its obvious we're going to shoot 20+ 3's a game from now on. We might as well get our best 3-pt shooters shooting them. More Dre bombs and less Kelly bricks.
How did you like Dre getting put in at the end for some desparation offense, only to miss 3 straight FTs? I felt terrible for the kid.

Riding the pine wasn't really his fault yesterday night. When the opposing lineup is Zeller-Henson-Barnes, there's simply no way you can play defense with 3 guards.

Delaware
03-06-2011, 03:42 PM
Looking at Kenpom tells the story of how the team from this year is different from 2010... only one stat is significantly different and that is offensive rebounding percentage. We rebounded at a 40.3% rate last year, good for 7th in the country, whereas this year we are at a ~34% clip and 85th in the country.

The old adage of "live by the three die by the three" is not entirely accurate. Last year's team was almost as "three happy"... 33% of last year's shots were threes and this year it is 36%. But 2011 team is making slightly higher percentage of threes taken, so it is almost a wash.

The issue is what we are not recycling enough of our 3 point misses.

The defensive efficiency and offensive efficiency numbers are pretty similar, almost identical in defense and a bit worse on offense, but most of our "eyes" believe that our defense is worse this year. Why is that?

I think we all went into this year thinking that offensive rebounding and defense of our bigs was the biggest hole to fill. It has proved to be the case that we have not adequately filled those gaps.

Everyone is complaining about the point production of our bigs (Seth Davis even tweeted it yesterday), but our bigs did not score last year either. What we miss is Z and Thomas overall defense and offensive rebounding.... not Mason or Miles scoring.

When we had Kyrie earlier this year it appeared we could overcome the poor interior defense and Off Rebounds by either: a) outscouring the opponents or b) not relying on the three late in games becuase he could get in the lane and finish or dump the ball to bigs for easy dunks/layups. Or margin for error is way smaller now.

My thoughts are we either:
a) go all in with the three point strategy and go with Kyle primarily at the 4 and surround him with Nolan, Dawkins and Curry on the wings and bank on hot shooting. Make Kyle a mismatch for larger bigs and have him pull them away from the basket. Spread the floor all the time. Nolan... drive and kick or finish. Rinse, repeat. Sub Mason and Miles for each other only and have them go hard with 10 fouls to give. Have Kyle play 35+ minutes or so with Ryan or even Hairston to spell him a few minutes with same strategy to pull bigs away from the basket.
b) commit to Mason and Miles in together for 32-35 minutes and try and crash every offensive board (and defensive as well of course). They will need to stay out of foul trouble, so this is a risky strategy.

DukeDevilDeb
03-06-2011, 03:46 PM
How did you like Dre getting put in at the end for some desparation offense, only to miss 3 straight FTs? I felt terrible for the kid.

Riding the pine wasn't really his fault yesterday night. When the opposing lineup is Zeller-Henson-Barnes, there's simply no way you can play defense with 3 guards.

but I'm not sure what to do about or with him. i was very frustrated with Ryan (as I have sometimes gotten frustrated with Kyle) as he kept on shooting pretty poor outside shots. I know the team kept getting him the ball and he was open, but perhaps that was because Carolina figured out before we did that he couldn't hit anything from outside last night. Neither could Kyle. While Ryan went 0-6 from three, Kyle also went 0-5. Nolan was 0-4, but what he did differently from Kyle and Ryan was to look for other ways to score. When the long bomb wasn't falling, Nolan drove and drove and drove... that's what Kyle needed to do (and that's how he did well in the Clemson game) and that is what Ryan needed to do. I don't think there's a rule in basketball that says, "If you get the ball and are open, you have to shoot a three even when you aren't hitting." Pass it on, drive, do whatever... just don't shoot terrible shot after terrible shot.

Back to Dre: I agree with those of you who have said that he doesn't get enough minutes to get warmed up and have a chance to hit some threes. I'm not sure why. But, man, when he got fouled on the three miss, had three shots, and came up with a big zero, I just wanted to cry. Shooting free throws is something Duke is usually good at. Nolan was 12-13 (drive, and you get fouled!). Kyle and Seth were each 2-2. Miles made 1-2... and Andre bricked every single one.

So how to handle this? Wish I could tell you, but that's why K has the floor named after him. I just hope he figures this out before next Friday, or we are going to look as bad then as we did last night or against VT. Looks like we play the winner of #7 vs #10... Today, that would be Maryland vs NCState. But that may change.

All that said (sorry), AND I'M ALWAYS on board. The team will do as well as the players and coaches can, and I'll be cheering until I'm (Duke) blue in the face and my voice disappears!

LSanders
03-06-2011, 04:03 PM
A true duke fan should always be on board and support your team,don't like the way there playing,fine,but always be on board and support the Devils.JMO,,I'll always be behind Duke and i'd hope all true devil fans will be too....Lets be better than the heel fans are to there team when there down on them.

Amen!!

So, if I understand, some of you only want open shooters to put it up IF they know it's going in? Really? So, shooters aren't allowed to find their rhythm? They have to have it when they hit the floor or they should concentrate on other things, right?

Hmm ... Wonder how many coaches would agree?

If you're a shooter, you're open, you're squared up, you put it up. That's what we did last year. The only difference was Z cleaned up our messes when our shots were off.

I think the naysayers should get off Ryan's back. He did his job. If we'd done a better job of cleaning up the offensive glass, no one would care whether he missed his open shot because we'd have 2nd and 3rd chances.

The season's done. Now, it's time to get serious. I think the Plums have the potential to be Z redux - IF they stay at home on defense, assume the miss, box out, etc. ... All those things we were taught in elementary school.

Do that, and we won't miss Kyrie quite so much.

dukestheheat
03-06-2011, 04:07 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

on board, present and accounted for!

dth.

dukestheheat
03-06-2011, 04:10 PM
Who is good enough to make it to Houston?

Ohio State? They must be out because they lost by 13 at Purdue
Kansas? They must be out because they lost by 16! at KSU and by 11! at home to Texas
Texas? They lost by 17 on the road to Southern Cal
Pittsburgh? They've lost two games at home
UNC? They lost by 20!!! at Georgia Tech
Purdue? They lost yesterday to a mediocre Iowa team

The lesson here is that no one is perfect. Duke is 27-4 and #3 in the country according to the objective kenpom.com. I like our chances against everyone in the country. If non-Seth players shoot 0-16 from 3 against at top 10 team on the road, then we deserve to lose. But I'm betting that won't happen again this year.

Man, you are right and I'm pumped after reading this post! Thanks for adding some necessary perspective, truly.

dth.

Buckeye Devil
03-06-2011, 04:12 PM
Riding the pine wasn't really his fault yesterday night. When the opposing lineup is Zeller-Henson-Barnes, there's simply no way you can play defense with 3 guards.

Couldn't you pack it in with zone defense and make UNC beat you with the outside shot? UNC could not have outrebounded Duke any worse with zone than it did from man defense and hey we got beat by 14 anyway.

You have to feel bad for Dawkins, but I think he needs a little more game time to get into rhythm. I like the 3 guard idea myself. They are going to need him to hit some shots sometime during the tournament.

ncexnyc
03-06-2011, 04:16 PM
Always in and ready to support this team through whatever. I like this idea and Andre looked good against Barnes in limited action. I say let's try it. He needs a confidence boost and we need his offensive firepower. Period. Go Duke.
If Kyle couldn't go off against Barnes, let alone have a decent game. What makes anyone on this board think the shorter, less mobile Dre would do better? I also recall Kyle taking it down low against Henson and coming away with Spalding tatooed to his forehead. Now if you believe Henson would be in chase mode against Kyle that is fine, but the Kyle to the 3 move that started last year hasn't exactly been reaping massive dividends this year.

gus
03-06-2011, 04:25 PM
Will always be on board, but can't support the Ryan Kelly line. When you're 6'11 and go 0-3 to start the game behind 3-pt range, you have to switch it up. Go to the inside, fight for some rebounds, take some fouls from the other bigs.

Kelly is a 33% 3 point shooter- he's right at the cusp where it makes sense for him to shoot.

All three of his first three pointers were open. Mechanically the shots looked good. They just didn't go in. It happens. If he is a shooter that gets the green light on open threes (and he is right now), you do not change the strategy because of a few misses. If we're being given open threes... we take open threes.

Flip a coin a few hundred times in a row, and occasionally it comes up tails 5 times in a row. That doesn't change the fact that the odds of heads coming up next are still 50/50.

The coaching staff may re-evaluate Kelly's shooting percentage (like I said, I think he's on the cusp), and may decide he should not be taking threes... but that's not an in-game adjustment.

AZLA
03-06-2011, 04:51 PM
You make a point, but I have to agree with Fuqua and I believe it is an in game adjustment.

A sophomore shooting that many times from three and missing so many in a row at the beginning of the game didn't feel like Duke team basketball. It put Duke in a big hole early.

More to the point, Kelly wasn't getting open because he was moving great away from the ball, it's because Roy scouts well and Carolina was leaving him open on purpose to help on dribble penetration. They know how poorly he's shooting and they baited him.

Carolina was practically begging Kelly to shoot. He should have recognized that.

At 6'11, and against a tall defense, every time he camps out on the baseline to shoot threes he removes the tallest rebounder on Duke's offense out of the equation.

There's no problem with Kelly shooting a few outside and getting going, but at least shoot it facing the backboard so he can have some chance of following his shot and getting a long rebound -- plus he'd be in position to get back on D and stop the long outlet pass.

ncexnyc
03-06-2011, 05:07 PM
You make a point, but I have to agree with Fuqua and I believe it is an in game adjustment.

A sophomore shooting that many times from three and missing so many in a row at the beginning of the game didn't feel like Duke team basketball. It put Duke in a big hole early.

More to the point, Kelly wasn't getting open because he was moving great away from the ball, it's because Roy scouts well and Carolina was leaving him open on purpose to help on dribble penetration. They know how poorly he's shooting and they baited him.

Carolina was practically begging Kelly to shoot. He should have recognized that.

At 6'11, and against a tall defense, every time he camps out on the baseline to shoot threes he removes the tallest rebounder on Duke's offense out of the equation.

There's no problem with Kelly shooting a few outside and getting going, but at least shoot it facing the backboard so he can have some chance of following his shot and getting a long rebound -- plus he'd be in position to get back on D and stop the long outlet pass.
It's not Ryan's job to recognize if Carolina is baiting him to shoot. That's up to the staff.

Richard Berg
03-06-2011, 05:36 PM
Couldn't you pack it in with zone defense and make UNC beat you with the outside shot?
Problem is, UNC is (finally) shooting well. A couple times we had a good defensive possession, forcing Henson or Zeller to take a 15-footer from the elbow late in the shot clock...and they went down. Marshall was not big on volume but his shots were extremely efficient. HB is, of course, a stud from all over the court. Put Dawkins on him and he scores 30, methinks.

None of this means the Heels are fundamentally better than us. They just elevated their game to an elite level we couldn't match yesterday. Kinda like UMD last year :)

Kedsy
03-06-2011, 06:03 PM
Looking at Kenpom tells the story of how the team from this year is different from 2010... only one stat is significantly different and that is offensive rebounding percentage. We rebounded at a 40.3% rate last year, good for 7th in the country, whereas this year we are at a ~34% clip and 85th in the country.

This is not true. Last year our eFG% was 50.5%, only 92nd in the country, while this year (even after our recent poor shooting performances) it's 53.5%, good for 24th in the country. And shooting a higher percentage minimizes the need for offensive rebounding, wouldn't you say?

moonpie23
03-06-2011, 06:24 PM
i am on board.....come hell or highwater.......

duke is a big part of life for me.....

i love this team.....win or lose......i support them and the staff...

oldnavy
03-06-2011, 06:26 PM
Look guys, Kelly HAS to take those shots. He can make them and he will. Last night he didn't and it did hurt us, but he cannot stop shooting the ball because of a few misses on a bad night. Remember this is the guy who made 18 attempts in a row, so it isn't like he doesn't have a decent stroke. The old saying is shooters have to shoot is true.

As much as I hate to quote Ol Roy, he has a point (hokey as usual), that things look a lot better when the ball goes in the basket. Well, last night things looked pretty good for him and not so great for us. Does this mean that UNC is a better team than us??? I am not ready to concede that point. They played better last night, and they are better than I had thought they would be, but we are still a pretty dang good team.

As for all the doom and gloom about the NCAAT, the name of the game this year is parody. There are less dominating teams this year than last. Remember how everyone thought Kansas, Kentucky were the prohibitive favorites…. This year there is not such a consensus so why not us??

Of course I am still on board!! Last year this time I had no idea that we would be NC the way we played against MD late and nearly lost to Miami in the ACCT....

Besides, I have been a Duke fan for over 40 years, where the heck am I going to go??

We will be alright, even if we do not win it all, this has been a VERY good year IMHO, especially when you consider what might have been!

elvis14
03-06-2011, 06:33 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

I'm on board...but to be on board one does not have to agree with all the points you state above. I love Ryan but he needs to stop shooting so many 3's (about 2 a game is enough). I'm on board because I love Duke Basketball, love our players and think our coach will do what he needs to do to win games.



Kelly is a 33% 3 point shooter- he's right at the cusp where it makes sense for him to shoot.

There was a stretch of games where Ryan got hot and hit everything he shot. After that stretch of hot shooting ended, Ryan has been pretty bad from 3. I like to see him take the ball inside at times when he's open. Take a shorter jump shot or take the ball the hoop. That doesn't mean I'm not on board, it means that I'm pointing out things that I think would improve our chances to win.

AZLA
03-06-2011, 07:11 PM
Wow, I'm all for "next play" and all -- but I sure hope the team has a bigger sense of urgency to correct its crappy execution in every aspect of their game than the feel-good lovefest that's being expressed on this thread.

Duke had the 2011 ACC regular season championship in hand!

What was Coach K's coaching point -- you don't win a national championship banner without a regular season banner? At least according to Duke history.

Technically a co-championship would have sufficed.

They effectively donked it off to their biggest rivals by squandering a more than winnable lead to VaTech and getting run out of the gym at Carolina.

That's huge and it stings. Nolan and Kyle did NOT come back their senior year for this type of result.

And the only reason they didn't win it is because they aren't playing Duke Basketball.

There was no on court communication against the loss to Carolina. They weren't getting back on defense giving up fast breaks. Defense was pathetic. Players were sulking and lagging getting off the court against Clemson. To the point that Coach K mimicked their behavior on the sideline and even slammed a chair into the court on Senior Night!

When in recent years have you seen Coach K have to do that on Senior Night?

I'm on board like everyone, but I'm also expecting THE REAL DUKE team to show up and without Kyrie.

I hope, and know, they are a heck of a lot more p***ed off than sentiments in this rosy thread.

The best thing about the Carolina game to me was when Mason sat the bench after fouling out and yelled _ _ _ _!

Exactly.

I hope Duke comes into the ACC tournament with a big nasty chip on their shoulder and reclaims what just got ripped out of their hands. Or at least the pride of being ACC tournament champs.

throatybeard
03-06-2011, 07:25 PM
Playing UNC in Greensboro would be a road game ;)

Nice catch though.

Further, playing anyone in the Charlotte pod with the Carolina fans there would be a road game. Lest we forget 2005.

sagegrouse
03-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Wow, I'm all for "next play" and all -- but I sure hope the team has a bigger sense of urgency to correct its crappy execution in every aspect of their game than the feel-good lovefest that's being expressed on this thread.

Duke had the 2011 ACC regular season championship in hand!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is supposed to be a "feel-good lovefest thread." There are plenty of complaints elsewhere on the Board.


What was Coach K's coaching point -- you don't win a national championship banner without a regular season banner? At least according to Duke history.

..................
They effectively donked it off to their biggest rivals by squandering a more than winnable lead to VaTech and getting run out of the gym at Carolina.

....................

And the only reason they didn't win it is because they aren't playing Duke Basketball.

Historically, that's accurate, but this year's 13-3 if the equal of 2001 and 2010 (co-champions) and better than 1991 (11-3).

Uhhh...... "... didn't win it ... because they aren't playing Duke basketball." Isn't this a tautology?


There was no on court communication against the loss to Carolina. They weren't getting back on defense giving up fast breaks. Defense was pathetic. Players were sulking and lagging getting off the court against Clemson. To the point that Coach K mimicked their behavior on the sideline and even slammed a chair into the court on Senior Night!

When in recent years have you seen Coach K have to do that on Senior Night?

Senior night is a huge distraction, and Duke's record ain't all that great of late. I saw Wojo throw a total conniption fit as a player in the big comeback against Carolina his senior year. BTW I thought the Clemson chair-throwing episode was at the first timeout.


I'm on board like everyone, but I'm also expecting THE REAL DUKE team to show up and without Kyrie.

I hope, and know, they are a heck of a lot more p***ed off than sentiments in this rosy thread.

The best thing about the Carolina game to me was when Mason sat the bench after fouling out and yelled _ _ _ _!

Exactly.

I hope Duke comes into the ACC tournament with a big nasty chip on their shoulder and reclaims what just got ripped out of their hands. Or at least the pride of being ACC tournament champs.

Finally, something we agree on.

sagegrouse

dcdrumsinc
03-06-2011, 07:56 PM
I've always trusted Coach K. But it does not make much sense to me why we see Dre have limited minutes. Before the season started our presumed strength was guard play. "Duke has the most talented back court in the country, lethal shooters everywhere. The back court is super deep" Our presumed weakness was our front court and it still is. But when kyrie goes out, our back court becomes less deep and less talented. we lose one more shooter and scorer. Then pile on Andre not getting PT from coach K. All of a sudden, our backcourt is also lacking without a true pg and with 2 fewer 3 point shooting threats.

With a weakened back court and poor front court play, what exactly is duke's strength?! Besides playing hard and pressure defense (at the expense of giving up easy buckets)?!


Ignore everything I just said above. I apologize for posting this on this thread. I still have faith in Coach K and kyle, the senior to be kyle again. good thing from carolina game is now we are the underdogs in a sense. wounded underdogs, but with thicker skin.

lotusland
03-06-2011, 09:13 PM
More to the point, Kelly wasn't getting open because he was moving great away from the ball, it's because Roy scouts well and Carolina was leaving him open on purpose to help on dribble penetration.

In that case the only way to get them to open up the lane would be for Ryan to knock down a three. Ryan's hitting 33% from three and if the second shot had gone down no one would question the other two. Unfortunatley you don't know whether the shot will go in until you take it. If you run to a spot on the court and set up for a shot and a teamate passses you the ball and no one is guarding you...?

DukeDevilDeb
03-06-2011, 09:18 PM
Look guys, Kelly HAS to take those shots. He can make them and he will. Last night he didn't and it did hurt us, but he cannot stop shooting the ball because of a few misses on a bad night. Remember this is the guy who made 18 attempts in a row, so it isn't like he doesn't have a decent stroke. The old saying is shooters have to shoot is true.

As for all the doom and gloom about the NCAAT, the name of the game this year is parody. There are less dominating teams this year than last. Remember how everyone thought Kansas, Kentucky were the prohibitive favorites…. This year there is not such a consensus so why not us??

Of course I am still on board!! Last year this time I had no idea that we would be NC the way we played against MD late and nearly lost to Miami in the ACCT....

Besides, I have been a Duke fan for over 40 years, where the heck am I going to go??

We will be alright, even if we do not win it all, this has been a VERY good year IMHO, especially when you consider what might have been!

Don't you mean parity (not parody)? Although I'm sure there are some who would say last night's performance was a parody of how Duke usually plays.

I'm glad you reminded us of Ryan's streak. It was truly remarkable, wasn't it? Given that he has shot so poorly from 3 since that time, it is easy to forget that there was a time when everything he tossed at the basket went in.

I was so excited when he made a great 2 from 10 feet, jumped up and down, and yelled, "That's it, Ryan. That's your shot! Keep doing it."

It is also good to be reminded that none of us REALLY thought last year was going to be an NC year... even Coach K kept saying, "I can't believe we won a National Championship." So stranger things have happened.

Delaware
03-06-2011, 09:34 PM
This is not true. Last year our eFG% was 50.5%, only 92nd in the country, while this year (even after our recent poor shooting performances) it's 53.5%, good for 24th in the country. And shooting a higher percentage minimizes the need for offensive rebounding, wouldn't you say?

I was mentioning the "deltas" in the negative direction. You are correct we have a higher effective field goal percentage in 2011.

Kedsy.... I usually find your thoughts and comments spot on.... do you think we need to tweak our strategy any?

Im generally stil of the belief that we can be a final four team. Not sure with how we are playing that we can beat OSU or Kansas, but a final four with this team after losing Kyrie, I would still consider a successful season.

NSDukeFan
03-06-2011, 09:40 PM
I like Ryan Kelly taking open shots even if they aren't going down because we trust our players.

I like Mason Plumlee's fire saying "..." when he fouls out on a series of bad calls because our guys have heart.

I like Seth Curry developing into a reliable scorer because when we have bad games our guys bounce back stronger.

I like Nolan Smith being the best player in the country because our guys have talent.

I like Kyle Singler because he's a winner. Period.

And I really like the guy we have on the sidelines because there's no one better.

Greensboro. Charlotte. Newark/San/Antonio/Anaheim/NewOrleans. Houston.

Who's with me?

It's a very exciting time of year. I would have preferred that Duke win the ACC regular season ribbon, but I believe the team has a chance at 3 more banners. Go Duke and nice thread!

Kewlswim
03-06-2011, 09:51 PM
Hi,

Maybe it is just me, but I was never "off board." I am always on board. I don't think, if the Devils put their mind to it, they will lose another game this season. We've had a bit of adversity and the Devils know that those are times to build internal strength.

I'm all for the Pale-Blues down the road getting overly confident. That way it is more fun if they fail (the wheels fall off the wagon and IC goes ballistic). I have all the confidence (and more) in Coach K. This time of the year is scary fun.

GO DUKE!

oldnavy
03-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Don't you mean parity (not parody)? Although I'm sure there are some who would say last night's performance was a parody of how Duke usually plays.

I'm glad you reminded us of Ryan's streak. It was truly remarkable, wasn't it? Given that he has shot so poorly from 3 since that time, it is easy to forget that there was a time when everything he tossed at the basket went in.

I was so excited when he made a great 2 from 10 feet, jumped up and down, and yelled, "That's it, Ryan. That's your shot! Keep doing it."

It is also good to be reminded that none of us REALLY thought last year was going to be an NC year... even Coach K kept saying, "I can't believe we won a National Championship." So stranger things have happened.

Yes that is what I meant parity, but like you point out it could have been a parody as well.... I have yet to fully master the English language!!

My point is that no one is happy with the play of the last few weeks, but we are DUKE and we are never out of it!!

AZLA
03-06-2011, 10:51 PM
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is supposed to be a "feel-good lovefest thread." There are plenty of complaints elsewhere on the Board.



Historically, that's accurate, but this year's 13-3 if the equal of 2001 and 2010 (co-champions) and better than 1991 (11-3).

Uhhh...... "... didn't win it ... because they aren't playing Duke basketball." Isn't this a tautology?



Senior night is a huge distraction, and Duke's record ain't all that great of late. I saw Wojo throw a total conniption fit as a player in the big comeback against Carolina his senior year. BTW I thought the Clemson chair-throwing episode was at the first timeout.

sagegrouse

I was thinking pleonasm. Actually, there's a greater point to Duke basketball and that has to do with Coach K coaching beyond just Xs and Os. Communication; leadership; tough man-to-man defense; sprinting to the sideline at timeouts; huddling up quickly after plays; the fist analogy. So, call it what you want, but it's these specific behaviors that have been lacking in their last three games, resulting in 2 losses and the regular season championship.

In 2001 and 1991 Duke won the ACC Regular Season banners for those years if you'd really like to compare this season to those seasons. Duke has not won a championship without the regular season. Are you telling me this will be the first year? I surely hope so.

Yes, the chair toss was after the first time out, followed not too long after by Coach K admonishing the team for lagging back to bench. In fact, his pantomime in slow mo was obvious and mildly entertaining.

Anyhow, this may look to you like just a windbag complaint, but c'mon -- there is no way any of you can tell me what happened over the course of the last three games even remotely meets the team's expectations or yours.

4decadedukie
03-07-2011, 07:58 AM
To my beloved Blue Devils: have faith in your team, you have the ability to defeat any opponent, we believe in you!

MCFinARL
03-07-2011, 08:14 AM
To my beloved Blue Devils: have faith in your team, you have the ability to defeat any opponent, we believe in you!

Very nice!