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BD80
11-04-2009, 10:17 PM
Harvard pulled in two commitments: Northfield Mount Hermon wing Laurent Rivard and 7-footer Ugo Okam out of Montverde Academy (Fla.). ...

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/

Was tempted to use "Amaker's got a pair," but with Jason upping his surveillance of titles, I caved.

JBDuke
11-04-2009, 11:11 PM
http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/

Was tempted to use "Amaker's got a pair," but with Jason upping his surveillance of titles, I caved.

As a mod, I thank you for your restraint. And thanks, too, for the good news for Tommy and his Crimson additions.

SupaDave
11-23-2009, 03:49 PM
Good article on Harvard's point guard. Jeremy Lin...

http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2009/11/crimson-attack/

CameronBornAndBred
11-23-2009, 03:55 PM
Once again...Goodman chooses D-o-o-k-i-e over Dukie. Congrats to Tommy, I wonder how much longer he will be at Harvard, he continues to show he can recruit, and in the past has shown he can coach. I believe it's only a matter of time before he's back at the helm of a bigger program.

JasonEvans
11-23-2009, 09:20 PM
http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/

Was tempted to use "Amaker's got a pair," but with Jason upping his surveillance of titles, I caved.

Actually, I would have found that thread title pretty amusing. Can't say what other mods would have done, but I'd have chuckled and left it alone.

-Jason "props to Tommy-- recruiting at Harvard is not easy" Evans

SBell
11-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Once again...Goodman chooses D-o-o-k-i-e over Dukie. Congrats to Tommy, I wonder how much longer he will be at Harvard, he continues to show he can recruit, and in the past has shown he can coach. I believe it's only a matter of time before he's back at the helm of a bigger program.

By "can coach," I assume that doesn't carry over to "in the NCAA Tournament, " because up in Michigan Tommy left us on the outside looking in.

juise
11-24-2009, 12:27 AM
By "can coach," I assume that doesn't carry over to "in the NCAA Tournament, " because up in Michigan Tommy left us on the outside looking in.

Tommy won 22 games in each of his last two years at Michigan and didn't make the NCAA-T. Beiliein won 21 last year and got in... mostly due to a home win over Duke. And who carried the Wolverines to that home win? DeShawn Sims, an Amaker recruit.

It's not like Amaker never won in the post season at Michigan (2 NIT finals, 1 NIT championship). He just never quite got over the hump to get in to the NCAA-T. He did much better against Duke than his predecessor (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/120900aae.html) (my favorite home game freshman year). I'm not trying to take away from Beilein's progress, but Tommy Walked into sanctions and did a respectable job. I think we'll see Tommy in the NCAA-T again someday soon.

SupaDave
11-24-2009, 09:23 AM
By "can coach," I assume that doesn't carry over to "in the NCAA Tournament, " because up in Michigan Tommy left us on the outside looking in.

Tommy had a lot to deal with - and none of it was his fault...


Self-imposed
By the fall of 2002, it had become clear that Michigan's basketball program was guilty of major violations.[3] In response, Michigan decided to impose its own sanctions on the program.[38] Initially, Michigan announced it would forfeit every game in which the four players appeared.[38] On November 7, 2002; Michigan president Mary Sue Coleman and athletic director Bill Martin announced that the school was imposing sanctions of its own on the basketball program. Among them:

No postseason play in 200203, even though the players who took Martin's money were no longer at the school.
The school vacated the entire 199293 season and every game it played from the 199596 season through the 199899 season. This included the 1997 National Invitation Tournament title and the 1998 Big Ten Tournament title. It also vacated its two Final Four games in 1992 and its entire NCAA tournament record in 1993, 1996, 1998 and 1999. There is a difference between forfeiting a game and vacating a game; a vacated game does not result in the other school being credited with a win. This included virtually the entire career of Fisher's successor, Brian Ellerbe. However, it did not include all games that Webber played or was eligible because all but the final two games of his freshman year were retained.
Returning $450,000 received from the NCAA for postseason play in 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998 and 1999.
Banners commemorating the 1992 and 1993 Final Four runs, the 1997 NIT title and 1998 Big Ten Tournament title would be removed from the rafters at Crisler Arena.
Two years' probation.
Coleman described what happened as "wrong, plain and simple." She also said, "I am determined that nothing like this will ever happen again at Michigan."[38]

At 8:00 A.M. that same day, the four banners were removed from the rafters.[40] Four days later, the athletic department officially deleted all mention of Webber, Taylor, Traylor and Bullock from the school's athletic records. These included Traylor's MVP awards in the 1997 NIT and 1998 Big Ten Tournament, as well as Bullock's standing as the school's third all-time leading scorer and all-time leader in 3-point field goals. The deletions came because the payments may have compromised their amateur status.

Michigan finished the 20022003 season with a 1713 record, but sat out both that year's NCAA and NIT tournaments due to the self-imposed postseason ban.[41]

[edit] NCAA
On May 8, 2003; the NCAA accepted Michigan's sanctions. It also imposed an additional two years' probation and docked the school one scholarship a year from 20042005 until 20072008. It also ordered the school to disassociate itself from Webber, Traylor, Taylor and Bullock until 2012. The NCAA also barred Michigan from postseason play for the 200304 season. Infractions committee chairman Thomas Yeager, who had come very close to imposing the "death penalty" on the University of Alabama football program a few months earlier, called the Martin/Michigan affair "one of the three or four most egregious violations of NCAA bylaws" ever.[37][42] The disassociation meant that Michigan could not accept donations or recruiting assistance from any of the players for ten years.[42] The NCAA criticized Fisher for allowing Martin access to the program,[43] but did not sanction him.[37] The University announced its intention to appeal the additional one year suspension from post-season play.[37] As a result of the sanctions, Ellerbe's successor, Tommy Amaker, received a four-year contract extension to compensate for the duties while under probation, and Bernard Robinson, Jr. had the right to transfer without sitting out a year because, as the only scholarship senior, the ineligibility extended for his entire remaining scholarship tenure.[42]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal

SBell
11-24-2009, 02:29 PM
The Ed Martin-gate residue has little to do with the success, or lack thereof, Amaker achieved with the recruiting classes he brought in himself.

No way Sims and Harris would be the players they are under Amaker that they became under Beilein. When Sims committed to U-M over MSU there was some controversy about what Tom Izzo said to Sims in terms of "congratulating" his choice, because basically Izzo, a coach who demands 100 percent accountability, understood that a talented kid who maybe lacked motivation, and with a tendency to float on the court like DeShawn has, would never come near his potential playing for a laissez faire guy like Amaker.

There was a lot of talent squandered in that program under Tommy. He coached NCAA talent to the NIT. Look at the guys popping up on NBA rosters, like Chris Hunter and Courtney Sims, who did nothing but underachieve at Michigan. They were soooo soft, a weakness exacerbated by having to play in the shadow of a program for which no one would ever choose that adjective. Player development was minimal. Some on U-M message boards today were chuckling at Harvard's loss to Army. Not because they wish Amaker any ill will, quite the opposite, but because it was all too typical to see Harvard with 30 turnovers -- like at Michigan, lack of discipline and hoops smarts and fundamentals taking away from a talent advantage. The kids when he was at Michigan largely played with no passion or discipline (Daniel Horton and Graham Brown the exceptions). The players' facial expressions and body language in timeouts were embarassing with the lack of respect.

I think Amaker has found his level in the Ivy League. Please don't wish him upon another high-major program.

SupaDave
11-24-2009, 03:12 PM
The Ed Martin-gate residue has little to do with the success, or lack thereof, Amaker achieved with the recruiting classes he brought in himself.

To say this means that you didn't read any of the post right above yours.

I can only imagine how hard it was to recruit at Michigan during that time. It had to be even worse to be a player trapped in that situation.

By all accounts he was the right man for the job at the time b/c like Tubby Smith he was keeping the program out of any other trouble but eventually wins usually outweigh the desire to stay out of trouble.


At Michigan, his 2004 team won the NIT title, and his 2006 team was the NIT runner-up. Amaker had been credited for helping to restore the ethical reputation of a Michigan program which had been tarnished by scandal[4]. However, he had been unable to take the Wolverines to the NCAA tournament, which had caused him to draw criticism. Some fans and sportswriters argued that Amaker's teams tended to underachieve and fall apart in pressure situations, particularly at the end of the season.[5] On March 17, 2007, Amaker was fired by the University of Michigan.[6] Amaker will receive $900,000 to buy out the remaining years on his contract.

On April 11, 2007, Amaker was named head men's basketball coach at Harvard University[7]. Amaker's Harvard team beat his former team, Michigan, in just his eighth game as coach at Harvard.

Talk about impatient. His first four years he should've been given a mulligan. His last two years produced 20 win seasons in what turned out to be tough conference years. Have you seen NC State lately?

BD80
11-25-2009, 12:11 AM
The Ed Martin-gate residue has little to do with the success, or lack thereof, Amaker achieved with the recruiting classes he brought in himself.

No way Sims and Harris would be the players they are under Amaker that they became under Beilein. When Sims committed to U-M over MSU there was some controversy about what Tom Izzo said to Sims in terms of "congratulating" his choice, because basically Izzo, a coach who demands 100 percent accountability, understood that a talented kid who maybe lacked motivation, and with a tendency to float on the court like DeShawn has, would never come near his potential playing for a laissez faire guy like Amaker.

There was a lot of talent squandered in that program under Tommy. He coached NCAA talent to the NIT. Look at the guys popping up on NBA rosters, like Chris Hunter and Courtney Sims, who did nothing but underachieve at Michigan. They were soooo soft, a weakness exacerbated by having to play in the shadow of a program for which no one would ever choose that adjective. Player development was minimal. ...

Amaker was the bridge. UM had completely disconnected from its alumni currently or recently in the NBA. Recruiting was in shambles. Tommy did at least begin to turn it around, even though he faced scholarship reduction EVERY ONE of the six years he was there.

Have you ever seen the difference between the MSU and UM basketball facilities? It is amazing that any players choose UM.

Choose one position and stick with it. Was Tommy a lousy recruiter or a coach that couldn't develop players? You say he had talented players, which would indicate that he was a good recruiter.

As for underachieving with NBA talent, I had trouble finding Chris Hunter and Courtney Sims on NBA rosters.

Yes, you think Amaker's teams were soft and undisciplined compared to Izzo's teams. Most teams are. Izzo has his program at a level where he can recruit talented players that are "his kind of player." Tommy never had that opportunity. Even Izzo has his failures, Paul Davis was a top-five recruit who was later considered "soft" even though his "talent" was enough to get him drafted. It is tough to find Mr Davis on an NBA roster.

Failing to accord Tommy any slack due to the state of the program reveals your prejudice and undermines your argument.

Go away or I shall taunt you again.

-bdbd
11-25-2009, 02:32 PM
Isn't Tommy's wife serving somewhere in the Administration at Harvard? I know that she had a fairly senior administrative position at Michigan -- Associate Dean or something. If true, then it may be hard for her to give up that prestige. Just saying that's one factor keeping him in Boston... But I would love to see Tommy out at another D1 major program some day. Let's give him a chance to succeed at Harvard first though.

This is always a fun one to goad my UNC at Chapel Hell friends with...."So where are the recent Roy/Dean/D'oh "disciples" coaching at these days? Duke's are at places like Harvard, Stanford, Notre Dame, etc. Notice a difference in academic caliber??" (Aside, also an extra fun one to prod them with re. K's Olympic Gold Medal success; as the two preceding National Team coaches were from the faded-blue family tree, and failed miserably. Thanks to K for bringing the U.S.A. back to the gold after all that Tar Heel lead!

:D

juise
11-27-2009, 01:58 PM
After watching Marquette beat Michigan today, I realized that I'm now pulling against Michigan because of this thread. I realize that this is not rational. :)


Go Tommy!